Wanting fiance in college to try it

[hakatri]

The possible feminization is a very interesting dynamic
I wonder if you can crossdress and get both Lee and Kriss used to it, to eventually include a man taking you out on a date
Maybe Paul would agree to take you on a date if Lee goes too, or at the very least have a "date" in private
Thats of course, an open invitation to try and bang your GF, so it would be a big step, but if Kris gets used to your feminine side, i get a suspicion she would try to get Lee with other men, to expand her horizons

[subbieCuck]

As I see it, a thumb up rule is the sooner someone expresses himself, the better. It feels so good to be ourselves, at least within our private sphere.

[jesseejames29]

Man you are playing with fire here. If you go down this road there is a good chance you could lose her. You aren't married and you haven't even told her your desires yet. If you don't care that much about your relationship then go ahead and get cucked. Its a rare woman who can be in this type of relationship. Your gf sounds great and she may well be up for it but you definitely need to communicate your desires to her.

[joel68]

I read a lot of the advice about this. It’s all over the map, IMHO.

I think Lee will eventually need some penetration from another guy. She’s certainly not getting it from Max. But her going down that road with Paul may take a while, especially since Max has not given her the green light to fuck Paul or some other guy.

But if she does, then she may very well end up leaving him. Who knows?

[troilusand]

But oddly enough, many of those very same wives had no trouble cheating. It's a strange dynamic. I guess they find less guilt in cheating, than they do accepting a hall pass. So just start slow.

Yeah, Marsha, I think you've caught on to something I've felt for years. Cressida felt less guilt cheating than hotwifing.

I caught my wife cheating many years ago, which eventually led me to realize I liked her fucking other men and proposed hotwifing to her. She was agreeable to the idea but circumstances never worked out in those early years for it to happen (these were "arrangements" with men with my impetus that fell through). But that didn't't stop her from fucking other men! Back then, if I wasn't involved in the "arrangements" and she found a man on her own, she didn't't tell me; she cheated.

In the first place, I think it was easier on her to cheat since they were always LOVE affairs she got into. And maybe more importantly, when they began, she (or any cheating wife for that matter) could blame it on spontaneous lust and NOT address the fact that she was simply a whore for men. Whereas when addressing it as a hotwife, there was no denying her slut nature.

Rather than being a "victim" of lustful circumstances, she would have to accept her whorish nature as a fact as a hotwife/cuckoldress...which she eventually (and happily) did!

Troilus

[whosbeensleeping]

That was a pretty hot evening you described!
I'm in agreement with others that it would make all the difference if you could find it somewhere inside you to talk to her and confide your desires to her rather than dancing around it and leaving it unsaid. That will take much courage and vulnerability, but the rewards are equally great. I think you do have it in you to step outside your comfort zone and be forthright. Passively hoping things will work out means giving up your own agency and will not work in your favour. More unsolicited advice, I suppose.
But certainly intended in a good way.

[joel68]

Well, he has not been here for over a week. I hope he comes on here and posts something. Especially if he's made any progress.

[Maxandlee]

Great update Max.

If I was a betting man, I would guess she's going feminize you one small step at a time. Maybe she'll put some eye liner on you--just a subtle amount--before you go out together. And then a little bit more the next time. And with this, she'll continue going a little further with Paul.

You two are perfect for each other. She's helping unlock parts of yourself you never knew were there. Embrace the growth.

I agree we are perfect together. She is my one and only. I think feminizing is the first step and maybe the other follows.

[Maxandlee]

How do you feel about her feminizing you? Would you be cool with some of the sissy cuckold stuff? Why haven't you brought up your desire for her to be a hotwife? I don't get the impression that she'd go out and fuck other men tomorrow, but it could be something she could warm up to?

I am up for the feminizing for sure. I know she likes that and it seems to be the next step. I am not sure what stuff you are referring too. I haven’t brought it up because I don’t think she would be open yet to it.

[Maxandlee]

I have a feeling that getting her fucked could take quite a while based upon what has transpired so far.

It may and I am in for the long ride regardless. Sorry it has been a while since I posted.

[Maxandlee]

I noticed you said you haven't mentioned this to her yet. Good. Never talk about it. I have no experience in cuckolding, but I had a boyfriend who shared me. Anyway, I've talked to many cucks, and mostly wannabe cucks. The wannabe cucks try and get their wives and girlfriends to do it they won't. But oddly enough, many of those very same wives had no trouble cheating. It's a strange dynamic. I guess they find less guilt in cheating, than they do accepting a hall pass. So just start slow. Give her a nice full body massage. During the massage tell her how much you like massaging her, but next time you have an idea. She will want to know what your idea is. Tell her that if she thought a two-handed massage felt good, wait till she experiences a four-handed massage. If she asks you who you had in mind to help, tell her you haven't decided yet. Arrange the massage, but keep it very tame the first time.

That is something I could do. Not sure how that would go. She has never had another guy so it may not go well.

[Maxandlee]

The possible feminization is a very interesting dynamic
I wonder if you can crossdress and get both Lee and Kriss used to it, to eventually include a man taking you out on a date
Maybe Paul would agree to take you on a date if Lee goes too, or at the very least have a "date" in private
Thats of course, an open invitation to try and bang your GF, so it would be a big step, but if Kris gets used to your feminine side, i get a suspicion she would try to get Lee with other men, to expand her horizons

Lee has dressed me in high school. But never outside that really. Her friends might be a next step in sharing this and progressing. Not sure I want to date anyone.

[Maxandlee]

Man you are playing with fire here. If you go down this road there is a good chance you could lose her. You aren't married and you haven't even told her your desires yet. If you don't care that much about your relationship then go ahead and get cucked. Its a rare woman who can be in this type of relationship. Your gf sounds great and she may well be up for it but you definitely need to communicate your desires to her.

At some point I will I just want to see her more open to it.

[Maxandlee]

That was a pretty hot evening you described!
I'm in agreement with others that it would make all the difference if you could find it somewhere inside you to talk to her and confide your desires to her rather than dancing around it and leaving it unsaid. That will take much courage and vulnerability, but the rewards are equally great. I think you do have it in you to step outside your comfort zone and be forthright. Passively hoping things will work out means giving up your own agency and will not work in your favour. More unsolicited advice, I suppose.
But certainly intended in a good way.

I do appreciate it all.

[Maxandlee]

Sorry for the delay getting back to everyone. Lot of school stuff going on.

A couple things have happened but nothing major. First is we stopped at a place to get Lee some nail polish. She got a kick when the lady asked if us girls needed any help. I had on shorts and tshirt and she saw us from behind. Lee thought it was funny.

She wanted some bright pink and wanted to get some clear polish since she was out. She got two since we had both used them. She got a couple other colors and these stencils stickers you can use to create different layers. She made me promise I would help her and I said of course I would. She asked if I wanted any colors since us ladies were looking. I asked what color she would want for me. She picked out a pink that looked like a natural nail and said this would be a good start. I told her thanks and gave her a kiss.

That night after we showered I did her nails. She wanted the base to be bright blue. Then the overlays went on and I painted them pink. When I removed the over lays you could see the design outlines. She really liked them. She the. Did my nails with the pale pink and put over lays on my middle fingers. She pulled them off and put clear over it. She polished then when finished. She said she was getting better. You could barely see the little explosion outlines on the nail.

She did mention that I should let me nails get a little longer. They were already long for what I usually let them get too. I said ya I think that would look great. She was wanting to play after and I took that as a good sign.

The only other thing is a new qb transferred in and all the girls think he is hot. I did notice her checking him out the first time we saw him at the gym. I saw her chatting with Kris about him as well. Not sure anything would come of it. That kind of thing happens from time to time. Anyways that is all I have for now.

[Maxandlee]

So Paul has been texting Lee, but most of it is chit chat. He likes to see pics of her and sometimes she sends them. Nothing sexual. He worked out with us today and introduced everyone to Bo, the new quarterback.

He is a nice guy tall and well built. He talked with us while we worked out telling us where he came from and everything. Him and Paul are friends. He even mentioned he heard they went out and joked that is all Paul talks about. Paul said he was full of it.

Bo mentioned a party and ask if they were going Kris said we should. Lee looked my way and I said sure. She said they would and I later caught the girls texting about him. Nothing sexual just that he is cute. Kris said he had eyes for Lee and she just said stop.

[whosbeensleeping]

Lots of potential there!

[MarshaA]

But oddly enough, many of those very same wives had no trouble cheating. It's a strange dynamic. I guess they find less guilt in cheating, than they do accepting a hall pass. So just start slow.

Yeah, Marsha, I think you've caught on to something I've felt for years. Cressida felt less guilt cheating than hotwifing.

I caught my wife cheating many years ago, which eventually led me to realize I liked her fucking other men and proposed hotwifing to her. She was agreeable to the idea but circumstances never worked out in those early years for it to happen (these were "arrangements" with men with my impetus that fell through). But that didn't't stop her from fucking other men! Back then, if I wasn't involved in the "arrangements" and she found a man on her own, she didn't't tell me; she cheated.

In the first place, I think it was easier on her to cheat since they were always LOVE affairs she got into. And maybe more importantly, when they began, she (or any cheating wife for that matter) could blame it on spontaneous lust and NOT address the fact that she was simply a whore for men. Whereas when addressing it as a hotwife, there was no denying her slut nature.

Rather than being a "victim" of lustful circumstances, she would have to accept her whorish nature as a fact as a hotwife/cuckoldress...which she eventually (and happily) did!

Troilus

I learned about this from talking to hundreds of guys online. One guy told me he married the "town pump". She started doing gang bangs in junior high.
She screwed every guy in town. But after he married her, he proposed the idea of hotwifing, and she refused. I just found all of this fascinating and strange. She loves being a slut and fucking lots of guys, but when it was handed to her on a silver platter, she refused. That's when we came up with this guilt theory. I talked to the husband of a porn star. It took him years to talk her into swinging. She finally agreed, and they did wife swapping. He said he realized that he wasn't turned on by the wife he was with, what turned him on was seeing his wife in action. He had a talk with his wife, and they decided to just do MFM threesomes. Hubby loved that. Then he talked her into camming, and after that, porn. He produces all the porn and has been in a few of his own movies. But he loves watching her take huge black cocks. My point is that swinging is a much easier sell than hotwfing/cuckolding.

[Dream Weaver]

...But oddly enough, many of those very same wives had no trouble cheating. It's a strange dynamic. I guess they find less guilt in cheating, than they do accepting a hall pass. ...

I think it has less to do with guilt or morality and more to do that cheating is easier, natural and normal compared to the oddity of trying to manage 3 way cuck dynamic. Even when they aren't cheating per se, many women don't want to tell the third about the cuck aspect because they consider it an embarrassing conversation that might scare them away.

[Maxandlee]

So at the gym Kris mentioned she really liked my nails. She was careful that no one heard her. She said they were really pretty. I said thanks. She asked if my toe nails were the same and I said yes. She said that is cool and she thought it was awesome I did it. She said honestly I think you are more of a bright pink girl. I know I was blushing.

When we left I drove us home and asked Lee for some chapstick. She said she didn’t have her purse and said I needed to start carrying some as much as I use it. Kris said she had some if I wasn’t grossed out using it. I said not at all. She handed it to me and I put it on at the light. I didn’t think to look at it

When we got to her apartment she asked me to carry a box in for her and I did. When we got to the door she said I was right about the pink. I didn’t know what she meant till I was heading back and thought my lips felt weird. Sticky almost. When I got in the car I looked in the rear view mirror to see I had glossy lips with a light pink hue to them. The gloss stood out the most. Lee looked up and giggled. She said see that is why you should carry some. I said stop. She said it does match your nails and slid her hand to my lap. She then kissed me and said sorry she didn’t mean to mess up my gloss. I said I could fix it later and kissed her. She said let’s get home. We got a shower and made out till the gloss was gone. She rubbed me till I came all over her hand. She did the same on my hand. She made sure to tell me she like the nails. I said apparently the gloss too. She said umm maybe ya and kissed me. I said you should have said something. She said I didn’t know. I said ok.

[MarshaA]

...But oddly enough, many of those very same wives had no trouble cheating. It's a strange dynamic. I guess they find less guilt in cheating, than they do accepting a hall pass. ...

I think it has less to do with guilt or morality and more to do that cheating is easier, natural and normal compared to the oddity of trying to manage 3 way cuck dynamic. Even when they aren't cheating per se, many women don't want to tell the third about the cuck aspect because they consider it an embarrassing conversation that might scare them away.

Good point. When I get asked for advice on this stuff, I sound like a defense lawyer visiting his/her client in jail. The first thing I ask is: "What have you said so far?" If they say they've told her they want to be cucked, I don't even bother helping. The damage is done. But if they say they haven't mentioned a thing about it. Then I tell them there's hope, but NEVER use the word "cuckold." I was chatting with a guy on another forum. The question was about how to broach the subject of an open relationship. I said talk about fantasies. Mention that your fantasy is trying threesomes. BOTH flavors.
If she winces at the idea of the FMF, then tell her you're fine with that, but would still like to try the MFM. NEVER make this about her, it's about YOUR fantasy. If she goes for it, and you have an MFM, then the next day have a talk with her. Tell her you were slightly worried that you might feel some jealousy seeing her with another man, but it was just the opposite. Tell her how hot and sexy it was seeing her in action. Tell her you want to do more of this. Use this theme in your bedroom talk, and do some role playing with a dildo. Then after awhile, tell her that on the days when your schedules don't match up, or you're out of town, you have no problem with her and Todd getting together for some fun. (Todd is the threesome guy)
But tell her you just want her to text you when she does it. If she can do that, you will be totally fine with it. And she can find guys other than Todd, just as long as she keeps you in the loop.
I don't know if that will work or not, but I know for a fact that the cuck thing doesn't fly.

[2inUPMichigan]

...But oddly enough, many of those very same wives had no trouble cheating. It's a strange dynamic. I guess they find less guilt in cheating, than they do accepting a hall pass. ...

I think it has less to do with guilt or morality and more to do that cheating is easier, natural and normal compared to the oddity of trying to manage 3 way cuck dynamic. Even when they aren't cheating per se, many women don't want to tell the third about the cuck aspect because they consider it an embarrassing conversation that might scare them away.

Good point. When I get asked for advice on this stuff, I sound like a defense lawyer visiting his/her client in jail. The first thing I ask is: "What have you said so far?" If they say they've told her they want to be cucked, I don't even bother helping. The damage is done. But if they say they haven't mentioned a thing about it. Then I tell them there's hope, but NEVER use the word "cuckold." I was chatting with a guy on another forum. The question was about how to broach the subject of an open relationship. I said talk about fantasies. Mention that your fantasy is trying threesomes. BOTH flavors.
If she winces at the idea of the FMF, then tell her you're fine with that, but would still like to try the MFM. NEVER make this about her, it's about YOUR fantasy. If she goes for it, and you have an MFM, then the next day have a talk with her. Tell her you were slightly worried that you might feel some jealousy seeing her with another man, but it was just the opposite. Tell her how hot and sexy it was seeing her in action. Tell her you want to do more of this. Use this theme in your bedroom talk, and do some role playing with a dildo. Then after awhile, tell her that on the days when your schedules don't match up, or you're out of town, you have no problem with her and Todd getting together for some fun. (Todd is the threesome guy)
But tell her you just want her to text you when she does it. If she can do that, you will be totally fine with it. And she can find guys other than Todd, just as long as she keeps you in the loop.
I don't know if that will work or not, but I know for a fact that the cuck thing doesn't fly.

All of your advice in this thread suggests that instead of being open and honest that manipulation is a better tactic.

You have said to lie to your wife about your true interests and intentions. You have said to suggest both FMF and MFM (possibly as a decoy?) in an attempt to get her to agree to a threesome.

You have suggested "steps" to employ to move things in the direction of hotwifing without ever giving the wife a chance to make the decision for herself.


Maybe on other sites manipulating strategies to get wives to be hotwives was allowed, but NOT here!

This site is about that "cuck thing" and that "hotwifing thing." 100% consent is necessary, and deception can lead to being banned.

2inUP
VHW Admin

[Mr1SexyGILF]

Maxandlee

Please do not let the hijack of your thread, by a couple of way off topic posters, deter you from continuing to share further developments, Thank You for taking the time to bring us along on your journey.

Mr GILF

[Maxandlee]

Friday Lee asked if I was sure about going to the party. I said yes but said if they preferred to go alone I was fine with that too. She said no she just didn’t know if I was wanting to go. I again assured her that if she wanted just her and Kris to go that was fine with me. She said no she didn’t know who all would be there and wanted me to go with them. I said sure.

I asked if she wanted me to do her nails and she said no but she wouldn’t mind a touch up and buff. I said of course and she said mine could use it too. I said I agreed. After we showered we watched some Netflix and I did her nails. She did mine too. She got them as shiny as they could get.

Saturday morning I woke her up with breakfast in bed. We laid around and then I went down on her. I kept getting her just to the edge and stopped. She was playfully mad and said she would pay me back for that one.

Lee and Kris texted about what to wear. They went with skirts and tanks. They also wore some platform shoes to make them taller. It also makes her legs look really nice. As we were getting ready she asked me to put on this lotion that makes her legs have a shine. I did and when I finished she said no you too. She did mine and when she finished she put some on her fingers and rubbed me. I was close to cumming and she whispered payback is a bitch and she stopped. She said and don’t think about touching yourself. I said I wouldn’t.

She looked really cute in the skirt. It wasn’t that short but is made to where you can adjust it. She likes that because she said she never knows what others will be wearing. The tank was for the school and she had cut the middle to show some cleavage. That was done a while back. Others had done that to it too. The bottom was cut as well to show some of her stomach. Again like others had done.

She asked me to hand her her ring and earrings. I said you should wear those bracelets I got you the other day. She said ya that works. I gave it to her and noticed one was an anklet. I said she should wear it and she said ok. She didn’t know what I know from the forums here. Although I doubt anyone would anyway.

When Kris and her boyfriend got here we had some wine. I didn’t drink since I was driving. The girls did the most. It was about a thirty minute drive after we left. We got there around 9. It was going pretty good. I saw some friends and went to say hi. Later I looked for her and found her with Brian Bo Kris and some others. Brian had his arm around her lower back and made a joke about her being his date. She said laughed and said your date who also brought her fiancé with her. They all laughed and made fun of him. Bo said see I told you.

Later I caught up with them but tried to give them as much alone time as possible. I went back later and found Lee. We went to get a drink and she was a little tipsy. Bo came by and asked if she wanted to step out with them and smoke. She said ya of course and looked my way. I said ya. She knows I am not in to smoking pot. When they came back in they were all laughing. Paul was gone and Lee was talking to Bo. He held her hand to help her up the stairs and then Let go.

I was just around the corner and could here them and Bo asked about Paul. She said he is a friend and she went to one of his formals with him. He said he really likes her. She said he is cool but she has a fiancé. He said ya Paul told him. He said don’t take this the wrong way but I thought he was gay when I met him. I had no idea he was with you. She said I was the love of her life and she liked that I wasn’t as masculine as the other guys. Bo said honestly he thought I was a girl as well but figured out that wasn’t the case. She said we are all different.

He said ya that is true and asked if she liked masculine guys. She said ya of course. He asked if that was why she went out with Paul. She said no that was a favor. He said and what if I asked you out. She said well I don’t know if I know you well enough. He said ok and asked for her phone. She handed it to him and he put his number in. Then his phone went off as he texted. He then took a picture and added it to his contact. He told her to step back and smile. She fixed her outfit and then gave a little smile. He sent the picture to himself and gave her her phone back. He said now they could get to know each other. She said ya. He said is that what you want and she said yes. He smiled and said good.

They chatted making small talk and then Kris came over. Bo left to go talk to some one. As soon as he left they looked at each other and Lee showed her what he had done. Kris said I told you he was hot for you. She said no I made sure he knew I was engaged. She said ok but I am telling you he is.

I came up later and they asked if i was ready to go. I said whatever they were wanting to do. They said ya. We went home and showered and went to bed. I thought that was a good start.

The next day he texted her and said thanks for coming. It was nice getting to know her. She said the same. They have texted a couple times outside that too. Nothing big.

[Anders86]

Nice update man, sounds hot.
But I think it’s time Lee get to know about your fetish and desires. The “I had a dream about you and…” seem like a good starter, I used it myself on my gf, and tell her how hot it was.