Wife and my Dad

[jratt85]

I'm in the process of reading your thread from the beginning and not spoiling it by reading recent replies and I have to say... Isn't it both odd and amazing that things that can often hurt us emotionally and break our hearts, also at the same time turn us on like crazy?

That's what the whole cuckold thing is to me. On one hand it turns me on like crazy, partly because with my inexperience and physical/mental limitations it feels like it's inevitable that it'll happen to me or she'll just cheat on me.. on the other the thought that I'm not going to be good enough, despite my over 10 inch cock, leading to her cheat or say I have to be okay with her hooking up with other guys to make up for how hard sex is for me and all the things I can't do... absolutely rips my heart out. Hell anytime I watch cuckold porn I feel like I'm just raising a flag to the world okaying it to eventually happen to me even though I get harder than usual and typically cum easier (and often better) than usual. Again, its odd that things that break our hearts can be so arousing and feel so real compared to other fantasies.

I guess part of it is that I also have next to no self confidence or self worth so it's incredibly difficult to imagine a woman ever wanting me or me being enough for her. (I mean after all, no one has ever wanted me so far.) I think a lot of guys on this site are in the no confidence zone with me.

Sorry if that's taken as me trying to dump my crap on your thread or anything.. I was just trying to explain my thoughts on the matter. So far, 5 pages into your thread it definitely is hot.. I'm right after your first sex talking about your fantasies.

[bubbajack]

"Yes I will always have a love and an attraction for her. But sometimes you just can't go back and you shouldn't. I have moved on now and am better for it. I have my memories and some are freakin awesome and so special you just can't describe them. But it's had it's day and now I am on to another chapter of life and am very happy with things now. Thanks for your question "

I am deeply glad to read this. Sounds so wise and sane. Also, may I say, a testimony to the resilience of Dave's character in the aftermath of some pretty harrowing experiences. Thanks ver much for the update.

[elina]

Simply put I do have a deep inner desire to be her cuckold (which I already consider myself from our past history). She hasn't been with anyone else since being back home with me but I am sure it's only a matter of time. Paige has changed a lot but the sexual tigress is still alive and well within her. She doesn't need any coaxing or pressuring from me to get her going in that direction. It's already played a major part of our current lovemaking in tone and talk if you will. Just no other partners as of right now. But I am sure it will come. And to me that's what feels right so. As far as her sharing men with me that's more a thing of I want what she wants. If she wishes to see or experience that with me then she'll make that clear and if history shows us anything I never was able to turn those desires of her down before so I don't think I could or would now. She already plays the part of my cuckoldress/mistress in bed now and she knows she can do whatever she wants with whomever she wants, so it's only a matter of when I guess. Like I said the mother thing and the change in her partying habits has slowed the opportunities down but that's a good thing. When the time is right and she meets the man she wants to fuck she will and I will be there to support her.

Dave,

Please take this for what it is; speculation on my based on my own interpretations of what you write, so just use it as a basis for reflection and don't interpret this as me telling you to do something.

Could it be that Paiges first priority in life now is to ensure that someone will look after Her and Her child?
Untill She is confident that She is covered on that front, Her innen Tigress will be tamed by Her overwhelming desire as a mother to ensure that Her child is always taken well care of.

I loved it when in an earlier post you descried how you allways felt Paige was a good person at heart. I think She moved back in with you because She felt you were the best person for Her to have a stable long term relationship with so that both Her and Her child can have a good family life and, maybe what you are doing now is making Her love you more deeply. She knows that you know Her past, She can still talk about cuckolding with you and you like it.

Have you considered proposing to Her?
And when you do, acknowledge the fact that you know that She will be free to cuckold you in the future when She feels the time is right for that?
Or is this just to early now?

Sincerely
elina

[curiousdave]

I'm in the process of reading your thread from the beginning and not spoiling it by reading recent replies and I have to say... Isn't it both odd and amazing that things that can often hurt us emotionally and break our hearts, also at the same time turn us on like crazy?

That's what the whole cuckold thing is to me. On one hand it turns me on like crazy, partly because with my inexperience and physical/mental limitations it feels like it's inevitable that it'll happen to me or she'll just cheat on me.. on the other the thought that I'm not going to be good enough, despite my over 10 inch cock, leading to her cheat or say I have to be okay with her hooking up with other guys to make up for how hard sex is for me and all the things I can't do... absolutely rips my heart out. Hell anytime I watch cuckold porn I feel like I'm just raising a flag to the world okaying it to eventually happen to me even though I get harder than usual and typically cum easier (and often better) than usual. Again, its odd that things that break our hearts can be so arousing and feel so real compared to other fantasies.

I guess part of it is that I also have next to no self confidence or self worth so it's incredibly difficult to imagine a woman ever wanting me or me being enough for her. (I mean after all, no one has ever wanted me so far.) I think a lot of guys on this site are in the no confidence zone with me.

Sorry if that's taken as me trying to dump my crap on your thread or anything.. I was just trying to explain my thoughts on the matter. So far, 5 pages into your thread it definitely is hot.. I'm right after your first sex talking about your fantasies.

Hey jratt. Listen I am no expert on all this but I can tell you my personal view. We (cuckolds) are just wired differently than the average men out there. Average men or the normal typical male just can't wrap their mind around the things that drive us or our fantasies or whatever. Same with any person's fetishes or desires. We all have different likes and desires , ours just differ greatly from what the typical guy would like or understand. Some of us get off on things that would destroy someone else. That's ok though. The world needs all types. Without us what would happen with all the women out there who also aren't like the normal typical women also. They have non typical desires also and they need a man who will love and worship and support them with their needs as well. We are all special in our own ways. Don't fret over the way you feel. As long as your desires don't harm others , as long as what you want for your life is between you and another consenting adult then you're all good. Just like what you like and try your best to enjoy life. It will all work out in the end! Take care and hopefully enjoy my story. Sounds like you got a long way to go yet. Thanks for your interest and I'll enjoy hearing what you think when you get caught up! Take care

[curiousdave]

"Yes I will always have a love and an attraction for her. But sometimes you just can't go back and you shouldn't. I have moved on now and am better for it. I have my memories and some are freakin awesome and so special you just can't describe them. But it's had it's day and now I am on to another chapter of life and am very happy with things now. Thanks for your question "

I am deeply glad to read this. Sounds so wise and sane. Also, may I say, a testimony to the resilience of Dave's character in the aftermath of some pretty harrowing experiences. Thanks ver much for the update.

Thanks bubbajack!

[curiousdave]

Simply put I do have a deep inner desire to be her cuckold (which I already consider myself from our past history). She hasn't been with anyone else since being back home with me but I am sure it's only a matter of time. Paige has changed a lot but the sexual tigress is still alive and well within her. She doesn't need any coaxing or pressuring from me to get her going in that direction. It's already played a major part of our current lovemaking in tone and talk if you will. Just no other partners as of right now. But I am sure it will come. And to me that's what feels right so. As far as her sharing men with me that's more a thing of I want what she wants. If she wishes to see or experience that with me then she'll make that clear and if history shows us anything I never was able to turn those desires of her down before so I don't think I could or would now. She already plays the part of my cuckoldress/mistress in bed now and she knows she can do whatever she wants with whomever she wants, so it's only a matter of when I guess. Like I said the mother thing and the change in her partying habits has slowed the opportunities down but that's a good thing. When the time is right and she meets the man she wants to fuck she will and I will be there to support her.

Dave,

Please take this for what it is; speculation on my based on my own interpretations of what you write, so just use it as a basis for reflection and don't interpret this as me telling you to do something.

Could it be that Paiges first priority in life now is to ensure that someone will look after Her and Her child?
Untill She is confident that She is covered on that front, Her innen Tigress will be tamed by Her overwhelming desire as a mother to ensure that Her child is always taken well care of.

I loved it when in an earlier post you descried how you allways felt Paige was a good person at heart. I think She moved back in with you because She felt you were the best person for Her to have a stable long term relationship with so that both Her and Her child can have a good family life and, maybe what you are doing now is making Her love you more deeply. She knows that you know Her past, She can still talk about cuckolding with you and you like it.

Have you considered proposing to Her?
And when you do, acknowledge the fact that you know that She will be free to cuckold you in the future when She feels the time is right for that?
Or is this just to early now?

Sincerely
elina

Hi Elina, I think your views are spot on. Paige's number 1 priority at this point is her child and the life she wants to provide him. I know this played the biggest part in her choosing to come back to me. I am thrilled that she sees me as the one who will provide this for her. We have a long history at this point (mostly good). The only thing that was ever missing was really the stabilizing effect her child has brought. I mean I didn't know that beforehand or anything it's just obvious now. Anyway I can see it now that being a mother is what she apparently needed. It's been great for her. I feel very proud of her at this point. I am very happy to call her my girlfriend! About marriage... I wasn't going to go into that because I figured it would garner some questionable responses at this point from some who would look at it from a different angle . But we have discussed it and we probably will get married this summer. No date is set yet and I haven't actually proposed yet. But we did discuss it and we both are thinking along the same lines about what we need to do and stuff. I'm trying to figure a few things out first and once that's done I will find the right time and propose to her. Thanks again elina, I appreciate all your helpful feedback greatly!

[elina]

You are very welcome Dave,

I know from my own experience what a life-changing experience it is to be in a family setting with children.
As you are experiencing, you give up some things. But you gain some other things you didn't really appreciate what it was to be missing.

I wish you and paige all the best!

Sincerely
elina

[jratt85]

I'm in the process of reading your thread from the beginning and not spoiling it by reading recent replies and I have to say... Isn't it both odd and amazing that things that can often hurt us emotionally and break our hearts, also at the same time turn us on like crazy?

That's what the whole cuckold thing is to me. On one hand it turns me on like crazy, partly because with my inexperience and physical/mental limitations it feels like it's inevitable that it'll happen to me or she'll just cheat on me.. on the other the thought that I'm not going to be good enough, despite my over 10 inch cock, leading to her cheat or say I have to be okay with her hooking up with other guys to make up for how hard sex is for me and all the things I can't do... absolutely rips my heart out. Hell anytime I watch cuckold porn I feel like I'm just raising a flag to the world okaying it to eventually happen to me even though I get harder than usual and typically cum easier (and often better) than usual. Again, its odd that things that break our hearts can be so arousing and feel so real compared to other fantasies.

I guess part of it is that I also have next to no self confidence or self worth so it's incredibly difficult to imagine a woman ever wanting me or me being enough for her. (I mean after all, no one has ever wanted me so far.) I think a lot of guys on this site are in the no confidence zone with me.

Sorry if that's taken as me trying to dump my crap on your thread or anything.. I was just trying to explain my thoughts on the matter. So far, 5 pages into your thread it definitely is hot.. I'm right after your first sex talking about your fantasies.

Hey jratt. Listen I am no expert on all this but I can tell you my personal view. We (cuckolds) are just wired differently than the average men out there. Average men or the normal typical male just can't wrap their mind around the things that drive us or our fantasies or whatever. Same with any person's fetishes or desires. We all have different likes and desires , ours just differ greatly from what the typical guy would like or understand. Some of us get off on things that would destroy someone else. That's ok though. The world needs all types. Without us what would happen with all the women out there who also aren't like the normal typical women also. They have non typical desires also and they need a man who will love and worship and support them with their needs as well. We are all special in our own ways. Don't fret over the way you feel. As long as your desires don't harm others , as long as what you want for your life is between you and another consenting adult then you're all good. Just like what you like and try your best to enjoy life. It will all work out in the end! Take care and hopefully enjoy my story. Sounds like you got a long way to go yet. Thanks for your interest and I'll enjoy hearing what you think when you get caught up! Take care

Made it to page 30 last night before I had to watch some porn lol. Some of what you were saying definitely seemed like she was more in love with him than just wanting to hook up with him because of his cock size or because of what you had said. They definitely had more going on than that.. and having read some of the last comments I can see I was right. It'll see what lead to where you are now. My only downside of your writing is that you've changed the names a couple times which is confusing.

[jratt85]

I brought up her credit card gift and said she was so spoiled. She laughed and said "When you got it you got it" and made this
sexy little pout face. I said she sure does have it and Dad must really know that too. She smiled and seemed pleased to think that. I asked what she would buy and she said she wasn't sure. She'd just have to go shopping and find something. Then she joked with me again saying "My sugar daddy takes such good care of me!" I laughed and said "Yeah apparently he does."

I know what I would've encouraged her to buy.. sex toys, a strapon harness (sorry I'm into anal play for me, would LOVE to be pegged) and all sorts of sexy lingerie/PVC/leather fetish wear. Oh and btw with how much she loves having her ass licked.. why the hell do you never fuck her ass? I'm sure he did at some point, I'm just not there yet..

[Shogun2049]

I know what I would've encouraged her to buy.. sex toys, a strapon harness (sorry I'm into anal play for me, would LOVE to be pegged) and all sorts of sexy lingerie/PVC/leather fetish wear. Oh and btw with how much she loves having her ass licked.. why the hell do you never fuck her ass? I'm sure he did at some point, I'm just not there yet..

Before you ask too many of these questions, I highly recommend reading about how things turn out. Let's just say, there's no present marriage between Dave and Jenna.

[jratt85]

I know what I would've encouraged her to buy.. sex toys, a strapon harness (sorry I'm into anal play for me, would LOVE to be pegged) and all sorts of sexy lingerie/PVC/leather fetish wear. Oh and btw with how much she loves having her ass licked.. why the hell do you never fuck her ass? I'm sure he did at some point, I'm just not there yet..

Before you ask too many of these questions, I highly recommend reading about how things turn out. Let's just say, there's no present marriage between Dave and Jenna.

spoilers lol.. I'm just giving thoughts while going through.. He said he'd like to hear what I think as I get through it so I figured what the hell, might as well if something pops up.

[jratt85]

Thanks to everyone again for their kind words of support. I do appreciate it. I don't have long to write right now because I'm heading to a friends house to watch the playoffs soon. But I wanted to add some more while I have the chance.

For those that suggest I keep my head up and keep an eye open for a possible return from Jenna I appreciate that. Obviously with how I feel for her and probably always will I would take her back in a second. But I am not going to hold my breath over that happening. I do not feel it will happen ever. No one can see into the future and nothing is written in stone with stuff like this but I think they are for real. I can feel the love they have for one another and even though relationships do come and go and they could run into rocky times down the road, I just can't picture it right now. Maybe they will fall out of love 10 years from now, maybe they will stay together for 30 years, who knows! With how I feel for Jenna and my dad I honestly do wish them the best. I want her to be happy in every way. If that means being his wife and having his children and whatever else they plan together then so be it. I want her to be happy and satisfied everyday of her life from here on out. That is something I told her too. She had tears in her eyes when I told her that and she hugged and kissed me in return. I think my well wishes really touched her heart in a very deep way. She knows me so well, maybe better than I know myself and I think she knew I would take this stance in advance. She knows I love and adore (almost worship) her. She had to know I wouldn't stand in her way or cause problems. She is very intuitive and has this way about her. Basically she is a girl who knows how to get her way and not much ever gets in the way of that. Some will view that as egotistical and selfish and sometimes it is. But I respect that power and that drive and frankly it has always turned me on about her. It was one of the first things that attracted me to her, that and that incredible ass lol So all that said I obviously won't be taking the advice of making phone calls and disrupting their peace and exposing them. The thought of doing something like that is horrible to me. I couldn't live with myself if I felt I fucked up their lives in that way. But I don't want to talk about that, I'm just letting you guy's know thats not in my plans and never will be. Lose respect for me or whatever, that's just not something I will ever want or do. Sorry.

Before she left I told her I would give them their space and stay out of contact for a while. This upset her and she said she didn't want that at all. I believe her and think she wants to stay in daily or at least semi daily contact with me but I told her it was the right thing to do, at least for the time being. I told her she needed to concentrate on her new life , getting things in order, so on. She said she wasn't going to do this and would still call me all the time. It ended with me telling her she can call me anytime she wants or come and see me but I would not be calling her for a while. I feel she does need her space for a while and doesn't need to worry about me in this time. As bad as she may be or whatever she has a lot to worry about now. She's gotta explain this complicated mess to a lot of people, co-workers, relatives, friends, so on. She's got to set up house somewhere else and things may be messy emotion wise for a while. I just want to give her her space and freedom without worrying about how I may be holding up. I think it's the right thing to do. But she still called me everyday this past week. Well everyday except yesterday . We didn't talk long each phone call but she checked in and asked how I am, what I was doing , so on. I can't lie, it felt good to hear her voice everyday and made me feel cared about. She may be far from perfect in most people's eyes but she's a very special person to me. I know she loves and cares about me. Not exactly how I want to be loved and cared for but still, it's love. She even ended each call with a "Love you" which felt really good to hear. Of course I returned the love and it made everything feel right.


I know so many of you think badly about Jen and I do understand the feelings and thoughts. As far as being a cuckoldress she dropped the ball I guess. The thing is even though she played along and played her part very well, it wasn't her dream, it was mine. Can I or others really hold that against her? She gave a lot in that time to help ease the transition. It seems that way to me. She didn't just leave me right away. She gave me what I was wanting along the way and it was as awesome a time as could be expected for me. It exceeded my expectations big time! I am no expert in the human condition or anything but I think I understand a little. Things aren't always perfect and people never are. But considering a few things I think I understand a little about people like Jenna. Jenna is a very attractive woman. Extremely attractive people often operate on a different plane of existence. Things sometimes come very easily to them. They don't always have to work hard for what they get. Often times they get what they want, when they want it. Some become spoiled rotten and can exude a high level of entitlement and ego. Sure she has some of that, I can't deny it. She's a little on the spoiled rotten side for sure. She certainly expects to get what she wants when she wants it. For what it's worth I find that attractive in her too. I find everything attractive about her though so I know I have a very biased opinion on her. I just don't hold these things against her because I think she is a product of the system. She ran with what she had. She was blessed with good looks and she's made the most of it. I can't fault her for that. How many great looking people do the same? Well I also know the deeper her. She may be spoiled and entitled, but she is very sweet, loving and kind also. Ok, the kindness doesn't show so much here in this story, not recently I guess. But she is folks, she really is. She has shown signs of extreme sweetness and love ever since I've known her. She's a great daughter to her mother, a cool sister to her sister, was a super great, fun, sexy wife to me while we were together. She is always there for her friends and was there for my mother a lot during her rough times. I have tons of respect for that woman. Just because she has some flaws doesn't make her evil. She fell in love with another man. Yep that stings and isn't a sign of great morals, whatever. But this sort of thing happens everyday people. Doesn't probably happen too often with father in laws but it does happen. It's just what it is. Two people who weren't supposed to do what they did but they did. A few people were hurt in the process but no one was killed . Ah I'm rambling now, sorry. Just getting it off my chest.


Ok I gotta run, 30 minutes to game time. I will try and write more tonight if I have time. Take care guys!

Man.. you are definitely different than me.. THAT would absolutely break my heart and gut me emotionally. When it's over, it's over.. cut the chord and move on. Can't change the fact that you'll constantly be thinking about her but I could not stand her even emailing me all the time.. unless she was sending pictures or videos of them fucking.. That would be different, or when she calls it's because she's letting you hear him pounding the hell out of her and making her scream.. Sorry you never got that from her. I have women I used to talk to online that I still think about on a regular basis and wish they'd come back into my life, if only to show me how much fun they are able to have that I have yet to experience. And now.. back to reading

[jratt85]

But she was stunning and to be honest I felt like my mouth was watering just taking her all in. She was wearing this shimmering white dress. Mid thigh and sleeveless and very high end, just like all her "going out" clothes. 6 inch heels too and you know what that means, basically her looking down at me. Her friend was looking pretty damn sexy too (but honestly it's hard to notice others when Jen is around). She was in a sexy blue dress with tons of cleavage showing (she's a double D) and 6 inch heels as well which also made her tower over me. I kind of felt very inadequate if you know what I mean. She's a couple inches shorter than Jen but the effect was still two gorgeous babes standing there looking down on me.

Be honest, if she would've told her friend, right then and there, that you are probably hard as a rock looking at them being taller than you and looking so hot.. and told you to strip naked and sit at their feet and jack off.. you would've done it in a masochistic heartbeat wouldn't you? It really sounds like you are a massive masochist just waiting for the right woman to collar you and make you her bitch while she fucks anyone and everyone she wants to and humiliates you from time to time.

[crystal]

lol what a story

[jratt85]

Before I knew it I started to spurt, right in my pants. I convulsed and I guess she realized what had happened. I jerked again with the next spurt and she pulled back and looked down at my crotch. She was smiling and she reached down and touched me there. She said "You came"? Embarrassed I just nodded.

OMFG! All I can see in my head right now is this scene from Hollywood Knights. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNDygZnFoIQ

[jratt85]

...and with that, I'm all caught up.. Welcome to not having a life LOL

[desertsub]

Before I knew it I started to spurt, right in my pants. I convulsed and I guess she realized what had happened. I jerked again with the next spurt and she pulled back and looked down at my crotch. She was smiling and she reached down and touched me there. She said "You came"? Embarrassed I just nodded.

OMFG! All I can see in my head right now is this scene from Hollywood Knights. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNDygZnFoIQ

The PIE WAGON!!!!

[curiousdave]

Before I knew it I started to spurt, right in my pants. I convulsed and I guess she realized what had happened. I jerked again with the next spurt and she pulled back and looked down at my crotch. She was smiling and she reached down and touched me there. She said "You came"? Embarrassed I just nodded.

OMFG! All I can see in my head right now is this scene from Hollywood Knights. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNDygZnFoIQ

Never saw that movie or even heard of it but the scene was funny. I'll tell you, there for a while, I had several episodes of cumming without even trying or barely any touching of myself. It was crazy exciting and looking back extremely erotic. But that's due to the insane hot things that were happening at those times.

[curiousdave]

But she was stunning and to be honest I felt like my mouth was watering just taking her all in. She was wearing this shimmering white dress. Mid thigh and sleeveless and very high end, just like all her "going out" clothes. 6 inch heels too and you know what that means, basically her looking down at me. Her friend was looking pretty damn sexy too (but honestly it's hard to notice others when Jen is around). She was in a sexy blue dress with tons of cleavage showing (she's a double D) and 6 inch heels as well which also made her tower over me. I kind of felt very inadequate if you know what I mean. She's a couple inches shorter than Jen but the effect was still two gorgeous babes standing there looking down on me.

Be honest, if she would've told her friend, right then and there, that you are probably hard as a rock looking at them being taller than you and looking so hot.. and told you to strip naked and sit at their feet and jack off.. you would've done it in a masochistic heartbeat wouldn't you? It really sounds like you are a massive masochist just waiting for the right woman to collar you and make you her bitch while she fucks anyone and everyone she wants to and humiliates you from time to time.

I'm sure I would have

[DaveS]

Since I'm not an everyday regular participant here on OHW, and hardly ever visit the Cuckold Forum - let me simply say how pleased I am to have had the good fortune of stumbling across this incredible story, nearly a decade long in its longevity. I will admit that the taboo-ish title intrigued me enough to take a look at the story, and then I found it so compelling that I spent the next few days reading all of Dave's entries, as well as a sampling of the many comments. Like a number of other readers, I was captivated by the sheer eroticism of the early part of the story, then sickened by the horrible turn of events that befell Dave - but ultimately encouraged by his perseverance and willingness to engage with the truth of his own sexuality.

This is truly an epic tale, encompassing extraordinary eroticism, the tragedy of utterly despicable human behavior, and amazing strength of character in the face of such horrible betrayal. And , as many others have noted, the story is very well written - with an engaging narrative and remarkable candor. It was quite interesting to read Dave's updates through the years, and to see that he is still posting to this thread.

Dave - somewhere along the way in this tale, you wrote words to the effect of "I will never be the man that my Dad is". To that, I would say to you - "Be very grateful that is so!". Because, by my standards - no matter how alpha, how successful, well off, masculine, or well-endowed he may be - he is not a Real Man by any stretch of the imagination. Real Men have honor and strength of character - and any man that would take his son's wife from him for himself has NO honor or character. NONE. I'm very surprised that the rest of the family did not disown both of them.

He may be forgiven for being seduced, all men can have moments of weakness, and give into temptation. But him agreeing for her to divorce you and marry him is completely inexcusable. Even when he knew that you had consented to their "affair", he should never have allowed the situation to destroy your marriage if he could do anything at all to stop it. And, even if the end of the marriage was inevitable, he should have distanced himself from her anyway to save his relationship with his son. This is what a Real Man and a Real Father would have done (even if a stepfather, he raised you as his own since you were very young) .

You are the Real Man here, Dave - regardless of your sexual proclivities. You forgave both of them for the inexcusable. THAT shows strength of character and honor, the qualities of a Real Man and a decent human being (regardless of gender - this post is not about that).

I hope you will continue to keep us all updated.

[8toplaywith]

I wholeheartedly agree!

[Shogun2049]

DaveS, Three things from reading the story and other things. 1) It may be different because it was his step-father, not his biological father. Many would say it doesn't matter, but there's less of a connection when it's not your own flesh and blood offspring, so that may have made it easier. 2) It was a decision between the two that it mattered most to: Jenna and the step-father. She seemed to make it clear she was going to leave anyways or was thinking about it before, so it was a decision she was going to make anyways. It just happened to be the step-father she decided to spend the second half of her life with. (I know, it's still rather fucked up of her to make that choice and I STILL believe she and the step-father had started the affair long before Dave suggested it). and 3) Most families will forgive any kind of sinful or taboo act once a child/grandchild comes along. Dave wasn't giving his family any children/grandchildren/etc. so the fact that his father did within the first year of being with Jenna must've elated the family members. He was able to do what Dave wasn't, at least that's how it looks in their eyes, I'm sure.

[DaveS]

Shogun2049 - thanks for replying to my comment - all interesting points.

I do agree that John not being Dave's biological father does somewhat diminish the "taboo-ish-ness" of the entire love triangle, but that is really irrelevant to my point. It may have made it easier for John to rationalize to himself that it was ok to steal his son's wife from him so that he could marry her - but, by my standards (admittedly others may disagree), that still represents a total betrayal of their father-son relationship, no matter how much he rationalizes that Dave was "only" his step-son (given that he raised him as his own since Dave was four. It might be different if Dave had been in his teens when his Mom married John). My take anyway.

As to John and Jenna making a decision for themselves, I have not even addressed Jenna's role as I am so appalled by John's actions. As a father of a grown son myself (from my first marriage), I would never even begin to consider doing anything remotely similar in my wildest imagination. I seriously doubt that I would ever put myself in a position to be seduced by his wife (and he does have a very sexy wife), but if such a thing did somehow happen in a moment of weakness, I would never even remotely entertain the notion of taking his woman from him permanently, even if such a thing were somehow possible - even if I discovered that my son was a cuck and put her up to it. It's just an unthinkable betrayal. Any father that would do so - by my standards - has no honor or integrity - pretty much scum of the earth, in fact. Again, just my take.

As to the family, yeah - I can see them being shocked but them moving past it - especially since no kids were involved and because he was "only' a stepson, and especially since Dave made it a point to stay away. And, as you said, them having kids cemented it. Although - Dave did say that he and Jenna were planning on having kids in their 30's - so Jenna would still have had kids about the same time.

Regardless - again kudos to Dave for his display of amazing character.

[Shogun2049]

DaveS, if I recall (and I'd have to reread the last 10 pages or so to check), CuriousDave said that Jenna hinted at or made it clear she never really wanted to have children with him but it just felt right when she got together with John.

Also, I wanted to make it clear that I agree with you that it's shameful for John to take his son's wife from him. If they divorced on their own and then Jenna went to John, that's different. But to ask Jenna to divorce Dave so they could get married is just wrong. It's a tricky situation that Dave was in and not really sure how I would feel or do if I was put in his situation. Luckily, my wife dislikes my father because if his character traits, so it's not something that I will ever have to worry about.

[curiousdave]

I want to thank Dave for his heart felt thoughts on my story and situation. I could really feel your concern and care through your words. I 100% understand everything you wrote and make no arguments on your points. There is no way to spin things in a positive narrative for what Jen and my Dad eventually did. 99.9% of the world would basically co-sign to the things you said.

That said I will offer my own personal (I guess defense) of what ended up happening. I can't really defend their actions as right or anything but I do have a different perspective on it. I've written all this before more or less but when someone like you comes along with such well thought out and caring words I always feel the need to say something. Jenna and my Dad did a bad thing. Depending on your own moral code and feelings it could be seen as a horrible deed. I've come to view the majority of things in the world as grey area. Very little in the world is black and white. Some, maybe most see it in terms of black and white, wrong or right but really is it that way? I mean how many people do we each know who have done questionable or bad things yet we still like them or see them as decent or good people? I know many! Wrong and right is a very subjective thing to begin with. There is no way to spin it that Jen and Dad did a good deed. But I guess in terms of "their personal happiness" it was the right thing. In doing so they did a bad thing to me. That's really not debatable . But that's life. People do bad things that affect others all the time. They go on in life and try and be good or better people and move past what they did that hurt someone else. Maybe they always feel guilty about it, pray for forgiveness, whatever. But they aren't just mean, horrible people every minute of their lives after. It's just a thing that can and does happen.

I know some will never believe it or care one way or the other but I truly believe both Jen and my Dad did feel absolutely horrible for what happened. I know my Dad felt disgusted with himself over the whole deal. My conversations with him in the early days of all this confirmed this to me. He felt so bad, so horrible I actually ended up feeling sorry for him if you can believe that. He knew what a terrible ugly thing it was he was doing. He knew how people would be looking at him and knowing that in some ways they would all be right. He was doing something that he himself would have looked down on someone for. But it was happening and he had to move past the negativity of it for his own sanity. Something I totally encouraged him to do! Jenna's side was different because she was coming from a different angle on it all. She was doing something equally bad but she had the view of knowing how it started and how I was in on it and encouraging it and so on. It made things different for her. Not taking away any blame from her, I'm just saying it muddies the water a little if you're being fair about it all. I'm starting to ramble a little too much I guess. I really wasn't planning to write some great defense or anything just offer up the take that good people do bad things all the time.

I've never read the books or watched the movies but the title jumps out at me as a great truth. 50 shades of grey. To me that is life in a nutshell. We all mostly live in grey areas. What is terrible or wrong to one person may be completely right to another. That doesn't mean it isn't a bad thing or completely wrong or anything but it does mean their are various ways of looking at things. We shouldn't be too harsh in judging others if we aren't in their shoes. I'm not talking about criminal type acts or illegal type activities or stuff like that. But in terms of stuff like this... just know that their our good and bad sides to us all. You or I may would never do what my Dad did but it doesn't mean he isn't a good man and father in his own way. He/they are flawed just like us all. He's a good man and Jenna is a good woman. They did a bad thing and I feel sure that they still feel guilt and probably a little shame over the whole thing. But they should be able to move on and live their best life and put the bad things behind them. Just like we all deserve the same thing I think. Of course they are both unaware of all the condemnation they both receive here (thank goodness for that lol). But if they are getting any of that in their day to day lives I hope they can move past it unharmed.

Thanks again for caring enough about me and my feelings to write about it here. I do appreciate it very much. Have a great rest of your day!!

David