Not a Cuckold, but Thought I'd Share My Situation

[drstrangelove]

Sorry it didn't work out - thanks for all the updates and don't worry about your postings. Someone is always not going to like at least some of them --- don't change and don't let it bother you. Many of us appreciate all your posts regardless of the high or low since they are all part of your journey and we appreciate you sharing it all with us.

Thank you, Rogue. I always appreciate your insights as well.

[Coolcalm]

Thanks DrSL

May i suggest you should not over-analyze things?
It is not for us mere simple men to understand how a Lady is thinking

Sincerely
elina

Hah, thanks, Elina.

So I pressed a bit last night, asking her to promise that she didn’t delete any texts before sharing, and she did. I pushed back a bit, and as expected, she pulled out her phone to show me (she didn’t think there was anyway I could know the truth).

I went to the section with the deleted emoji section and showed her the awkward exchange as it was, also noting there was a 10 minute gap. Again, she held firm, saying nothing was deleted.

I told her I didn’t believe her and moved to end the convo. I could see the wheels spinning in her head *how the fuck does he know??*

She turned on the light, sat up, and admitted what she did. I couldn’t have been happier. A giant weight lifted as she came clean—she was terrified that both me and F would flip out over the accidental heart.

I told her I understood—especially while I was away—but she needed to feel safe to come clean with me and not double down on her deception. She claims she understood.

Ultimately, I feel better now, but I admit this brought me back to her lies during and shortly after the affair. This was a nothing issue; but a lie over something bigger could easily spiral us to end the relationship. I can only hope she’ll be more cautious and forthcoming moving forward.

My man she got caught again and then she comes clean. I’m so sorry to say but she is completely untrustworthy. And it seems really obvious that the heart emoji wasn’t an accident.
Please know I’m not trying to be a jerk.

[Coolcalm]

My opinion, you can throw stones at me, but the way the author behaves with his wife is wrong, in psychology it is called “Cognitive dissonance”. At one point you are trying to resolve her relationship with another man, but at the same time you think that you are obliged to control their relationship yourself and that THEY do only what YOU want and follow your rules, while you yourself change these rules and are offended when they try to break your rules. You want the truth, but at the same time you want the truth to be only the way you want it, but you don’t like it the way it is. You either let go of the reins and relax, or strangle the others with the reins and finally calm down. People in your family and out of it are not your sex toys.

I don’t think that’s a totally unfair criticism. But I also don’t think you’re being very fair to me.

My wife and I agreed on boundaries (like protected sex). We had agreed on *full* transparency while I was away (and she deleted and omitted text msgs). We had agreed on Saturday to stop pushing boundaries with him until I returned as it was a lot to handle while I was away (and a few hours later she offered to eat his ass).

The dissonance I’m feeling is her continually agreeing to things that she does not agree with (or does not consider important). She could push back on any of those things and we can discuss them; instead she makes commitments and then gets lost in impulsive behavior. That’s on her, not me. And it stems from her upbringing where she avoided conflict and people pleased—she’s working on both as best she can.

However, to your point, I am being far too controlling and I see that. I’ve been letting go of a lot, it’s just been at a pace slower than ideal. This has been a radical change to my life in only 16~ days (seven of which I was in Italy). I think I deserve some slack, but that doesn’t mean I disagree with your point. And believe me, I’m trying to let go. On the whole, I think I’ve been fairly good at processing and accepting her pushing boundaries—the ass eating and deleting texts were two issues I couldn’t move past easily.

I’d also like to add that the betrayal I experienced post-affair is a permanent wound. It will never fully heal. The lies and her bad mouthing me to friends and family is not something I’ve ever reconciled fully—I can’t relate to how poorly she treated me.

She has made incredible strides in repairing that damage the last two years and our relationship is in an immeasurably better place. But small lies and frivolous retractions of commitments are a trigger point for me that I need to keep working through.

Lastly, I relate to your point about her not being my sex toy. It’s a concept I think about often and I’m trying to guard against. It’s a complicated dynamic for sure though.

True, but one has to assume your wife is being honest with you.

[Robinpost1]

Have you considered at all what will happen if he catches feelings for her?

It doesn’t seem based on what information you have that this is occurring. However I’d be curious how you two would proceed.

He is a single man. Consistently having sex with a beautiful woman that in his eyes is willing to risk her marriage to be with him. He also wanted her bad enough to risk (and eventually lose) his own marriage. Do you honestly believe that it was purely sexual?

I’m not telling you to stop. I love your adventure and am relishing every moment living vicariously through it. You are a phenomenal writer. I only offer this question as something you might want to prepare for mentally. It will lessen the shock if or when he ever catches feelings.

I’ve been reading since the start of this journey. Forgive me if you have already addressed this topic in posts way back. As you have suggested, for a new reader it may take a few hours to get here. But it’s been at least a year since I reread your first posts. Would you want her to catch feelings? Where would you draw the line?


Additionally… have you ever wondered what her conversations with him are like? Has he asked “so how did your husband react when he found out? Why did he stay? Why did you suddenly decide to restart?”

Even for a purely sexual relationship as this is being presented to you, I would expect that these questions have been asked. The guys entire life was destroyed and she played a paramount role in that. He’s laid awake alone in his bed reflecting on his choices for countless nights between when his marriage ended and when he rekindled with her. He’s going to want closure. I offer caution, there is a reality in which these conversations are being had in person without your knowledge. I know she is showing you texts. But she is omitting details. I also offer that since you have confronted her long ago with text evidence when the affair came out that she will never feel 100% confident that her texts are confidential, especially with the recent omission and confrontation. She may even know you have the ability to screen them and uses this to keep control of the narrative you have access to. You read what she wants you to read. And slip ups happen.

You recently confronted her. Now She’ll either be more honest or she will get better at hiding it. You know your wife, and you say she is being honest. I believe you. And as someone who wants the story to continue and your life to stay in this happy place, these are worth exploring.

Thank you for letting us share in your journey

[drstrangelove]

Thanks DrSL

May i suggest you should not over-analyze things?
It is not for us mere simple men to understand how a Lady is thinking

Sincerely
elina

Hah, thanks, Elina.

So I pressed a bit last night, asking her to promise that she didn’t delete any texts before sharing, and she did. I pushed back a bit, and as expected, she pulled out her phone to show me (she didn’t think there was anyway I could know the truth).

I went to the section with the deleted emoji section and showed her the awkward exchange as it was, also noting there was a 10 minute gap. Again, she held firm, saying nothing was deleted.

I told her I didn’t believe her and moved to end the convo. I could see the wheels spinning in her head *how the fuck does he know??*

She turned on the light, sat up, and admitted what she did. I couldn’t have been happier. A giant weight lifted as she came clean—she was terrified that both me and F would flip out over the accidental heart.

I told her I understood—especially while I was away—but she needed to feel safe to come clean with me and not double down on her deception. She claims she understood.

Ultimately, I feel better now, but I admit this brought me back to her lies during and shortly after the affair. This was a nothing issue; but a lie over something bigger could easily spiral us to end the relationship. I can only hope she’ll be more cautious and forthcoming moving forward.

My man she got caught again and then she comes clean. I’m so sorry to say but she is completely untrustworthy. And it seems really obvious that the heart emoji wasn’t an accident.
Please know I’m not trying to be a jerk.

She is certainly not trustworthy (I have another big update coming), but I don’t believe the emoji was on purpose—I saw the initial exchange and she was more scared about him thinking she sent a heart than me seeing it.

I don’t know how she really feels about F, but I’m sure she knows he thinks of her as a sex object. So to her, the heart was a risk of him thinking she was coming on too strong.

[drstrangelove]

Have you considered at all what will happen if he catches feelings for her?

It doesn’t seem based on what information you have that this is occurring. However I’d be curious how you two would proceed.

He is a single man. Consistently having sex with a beautiful woman that in his eyes is willing to risk her marriage to be with him. He also wanted her bad enough to risk (and eventually lose) his own marriage. Do you honestly believe that it was purely sexual?

I’m not telling you to stop. I love your adventure and am relishing every moment living vicariously through it. You are a phenomenal writer. I only offer this question as something you might want to prepare for mentally. It will lessen the shock if or when he ever catches feelings.

I’ve been reading since the start of this journey. Forgive me if you have already addressed this topic in posts way back. As you have suggested, for a new reader it may take a few hours to get here. But it’s been at least a year since I reread your first posts. Would you want her to catch feelings? Where would you draw the line?


Additionally… have you ever wondered what her conversations with him are like? Has he asked “so how did your husband react when he found out? Why did he stay? Why did you suddenly decide to restart?”

Even for a purely sexual relationship as this is being presented to you, I would expect that these questions have been asked. The guys entire life was destroyed and she played a paramount role in that. He’s laid awake alone in his bed reflecting on his choices for countless nights between when his marriage ended and when he rekindled with her. He’s going to want closure. I offer caution, there is a reality in which these conversations are being had in person without your knowledge. I know she is showing you texts. But she is omitting details. I also offer that since you have confronted her long ago with text evidence when the affair came out that she will never feel 100% confident that her texts are confidential, especially with the recent omission and confrontation. She may even know you have the ability to screen them and uses this to keep control of the narrative you have access to. You read what she wants you to read. And slip ups happen.

You recently confronted her. Now She’ll either be more honest or she will get better at hiding it. You know your wife, and you say she is being honest. I believe you. And as someone who wants the story to continue and your life to stay in this happy place, these are worth exploring.

Thank you for letting us share in your journey

Truthfully, there’s no way of knowing if she hasn’t caught feelings for him already. I can’t trust that. What I do know is that he hasn’t caught feelings for her—if that changes, I don’t know what will happen. Seems very possible my marriage could be over and that terrifies me.

There is an important dynamic at work here that should be emphasized: she likes that he treats her like a slut and hates when I do. She wants him to treat her that way and wants me to treat her like my wife—I don’t think she’s eager to ditch me as much as ensure she can live both roles.

Thus far, I’m not worried about their convos—I have full access to texts and she doesn’t know that. *Everything* they text about is sexual (outside of that initial convo late last year). As for in person, they’ve only even together a few hours thus far and they don’t talk. He never brings me up (didn’t during affair either) and she feels like it would be hurtful to him to bring me up because he lost his spouse and she didn’t.

When I can write more, I’ll have a longer post today on a major update from last night. Things got bad and I know a lot of “I told you so’s” are coming, but I’m committed to transparency here, so I won’t hold anything back.

[elina]

Thanks for sharing DrSL

I think you are handling this in the best possible way.

All the rest of us need to realize that even if DrSL has every intent of not hiding anything from the audience here, we will never be close to catching the accurate state of affairs. Hence I think we should be careful about jumping to conclusions. Life is just so much more complex than what can be covered on a few pages here.

Please keep us posted as thing evolve DrSL

Sincerely
elina

[scarfolamew]

Oof, wondering if something happened while he was in Italy...

[drstrangelove]

Update:

I’ve been quiet the last few days as Jan. 17 surprisingly triggered me. It’s an affair date and I won’t bother everyone with the details, but I tend to retract in those moments. Unfortunately, when I retract, my wife feels like she’s done something wrong—it’s a childhood issue she’s worked through in therapy (her father would give her the silent treatment when he was disappointed in her).

Every time I’m withdrawn, even if it has nothing to do with her, she feels attacked and wants to fix it—that then gives way to anger at me for making her feel bad about herself. I know it sounds a bit insane, but we dealt with this dynamic a lot after the affair.

And as additional context, we went through a very hard 15~ months after the affair. The really bad stuff isn’t in this thread (I wrote on another forum at that time), so many of you are not familiar with how toxic it was between my wife and I for a period.

It was a fairly simple cycle: she would build anger at me over *something* and bottle it up for days or weeks; she’d consume alcohol; then she’d unleash a viscous attack on me out of seemingly nowhere. It was frightening as I couldn’t even recognize her during those moments—she was ruthless and cruel. Out of defensiveness against her abhorrent behavior, she would say the most hurtful things she could.

It took me a while to recognize it wasn’t her authentic self—but it was made easier because the next morning she’d wake up apologizing to me profusely. It happened dozens of times that first year and I got increasingly better at navigating it, sometimes recognizing what was coming and diffusing it or walking away—unfortunately, that would often just slightly delay the blow up. My wife never developed a healthy way of dealing with conflict and tends to jump from smiles and love to anger and abuse.

I lived like that for too long and it almost broke me. It was like the stereotypical physically abusive husband who punches his wife in a drunken rage and cries out an apology the next day. I was trapped in a cycle I couldn’t fix—all the suggestions I provided (and our couples therapist provided) failed to protect me from her.

And then early last summer it all stopped. Not one fight—I never saw that side of her. We bonded and built back our loving relationship—it’s what gave me the confidence to push forward with the cuckolding dynamic.

And I don’t want to paint my wife out to be a monster—while she can be absolutely monstrous in those moments, she is sweet and lovely outside of them—it’s truly a Jekyll and Hyde situation.

All of that is to establish that it happened again last night, but it was much worse because of the cuckolding dynamic. I was not prepared for it as I haven’t really seen this side of her since June.

**

My son is with my mom, so we went to dinner with only my daughter—had a lovely meal and a couple of drinks. We went home, put our daughter to bed, then met on the couch to finally watch the Reacher finale.

My wife exploded—the primary attack was that she felt like I was treating her like a sex object. That it’s one thing for F to do it, but not ok for her husband to do it. I told her I understood and it was reasonable feedback over the last few weeks (this dynamic has taken up a big chunk of our lives).

But quickly I recognized that my concession wasn’t going to stave off her anger—it had been building and she wasn’t going to simply allow me to agree. I almost got up and left, but I didn’t see it coming. Name calling and abuse like I’ve never heard and she attacked me in a spectrum of ways that genuinely hurt me. It escalated to her accusation that I don’t love and respect her.

For our purposes here, we had an exchange in which I suggested we take a pause with F because very clearly we don’t have a healthy dynamic right now if she feels that way. I told her I’d work on whatever was needed to make sure we both feel loved and respected—and ultimately safe in our marriage.

That’s when it went off the rails and she told me she would not stop seeing him. I pressed many times throughout the night and she held firm—I was cornered and felt like there was no way to respond other than threatening separation—I explained that this was no longer a partnership if she’s unilaterally going to continue seeing him against my wishes.

She flatly explained that she was calling my bluff—she said she knew I’d cave on the pause because I like the dynamic so much, but that even if I didn’t, she knew I loved the kids too much to break up the home. She explained that I had already proven I wouldn’t divorce her these last two years because of our children, so I had no power to stop her from seeing F.

Now, I’ll pause here to say that I have no doubt that’s a turn on for many of you—I can understand that—but it was one of the most devastating moments of my life. My wife, who I found a path to love again, was leveraging my love of my children to allow her to continue having mindless sex with F. In the moment, I didn’t think there was a path to save us.

And unfortunately, it gets worse. During the fight, which lasted from roughly 7:45 - 10:30 p.m. I walked away and went upstairs to the bedroom a few times—she kept cutting me off and calling me names, so dialogue was difficult—and when upstairs I’d continue the convo with text messages.

The second time I went up, around 9:30, I asked her to please not talk with F tonight. She responded with a screenshot of an exchange she had a minute earlier. The exchange didn’t make sense really—it was just her saying “one day you’ll make it up to me” and again asking him to use handcuffs.

I didn’t have time to process it and just told her I was hurt that she reached out to him when we’re having such an awful fight.

We eventually went to bed and I woke up at 1:30 a.m. and went to check her text msgs—she had deleted texts again. At 8:30 p.m., the first time I went up during the fight, she immediately sent him a pic of herself in lingerie with the msg: “So…..when can I see you?!” He replied: “hopefully soon.”

When she screen captured it, she first deleted the photo and that exchange from 8:30 and just used the later exchange at 9:30 (the gap is because I came downstairs and we talked again u til 9:30, when she texted him again).

My wife was sleeping on the couch and I sat next to her holding her hand, contemplating my next steps. It seemed clear I would need to file for divorce.

I woke her up at 2 a.m. and we talked. She apologized for all of it and fessed up about deleting the text, showing me the photo she sent; but she was also still trying to justify her anger. We talked until 4 a.m.—the last 45 minutes were more productive and she had returned back to my loving wife. She was cuddled with me and horrified by her behavior as it all replayed in her head. She of course then agreed she’d stop seeing F if I wanted.

I’ll pause again here to explain that I know this must be hard to imagine, but she really is a different person. She gets blinded with rage and feels her attacks are needed to defend herself. She’s aware of it, but can’t identify it in the moment. I can, so it was on me not to allow that horrible convo to continue last night, though I wouldn’t have been able to stop her chatting with F I suppose (he barely engaged as he was working).

She asked if we could go upstairs to bed together and I agreed—I was really shaken, but seeing that divorce may not be needed immediately calmed me a bit. I still had a lot to talk through with her, but it could wait for morning.

As she got into bed, she took off her pajamas and hoodie to reveal the lingerie she was wearing in the photo she sent F earlier—a silk bra and black thong. She cuddled up next to me and it was impossible to resist.

She kissed me and started to stroke me and I melted, noting that she was right that I wouldn’t actually want her to stop seeing F. She smiled and told me she knew and that it was time I zoomed out and realized she was in control of this. She told me I asked for this and now I have it and have to live with it. She climbed on top of me and sank down on my cock in cowgirl, riding me very slowly with both her hands pressed against my chest keeping her upright.

It was a bit surreal as it was a mixture of dirty talk and harsh reality. Unlike on the couch downstairs, now I was able to lean into it. So I told her I knew I couldn’t stop her and I was ok sharing her and that I loved her. She smiled and rode herself to an orgasm, telling me she couldn’t wait for him to handcuff her and empty his balls inside her soon.

I told her I was going to cum and she rolled over and told me to cum all over her pussy like he did—and I did.

I was spinning at this point and recognized the dangerous ground I just casually jogged across. I told her that it was only dirty talk and she agreed. But now I know the truth that I’m no longer in any control of this train. I’m locked into this ride and if I’m being honest, I almost can’t imagine a scenario where it ends well for me or her. So to the many haters reading along, at this point you seem to be right.

We cuddled and went to bed; I didn’t really sleep though. We woke up around 7:30 and talked for another two hours. This was a really good talk.

She was terrified by her behavior and couldn’t believe how she was willing to risk so much last night. She doesn’t know what to do about it because she can’t see clearly when that happens. We have talked this stuff in circles so many times and none of the safe guards we try are foolproof.

She agrees to three things that she claims she will now uphold no matter what:

1: She will never delete another text between her and F.
2. She will never reach out to him if she’s upset or senses I’m upset.
3. She will cut him off cold turkey if I feel the dynamic is jeopardizing our relationship.

I don’t believe she can stick to those things while she’s upset though—in the light of day, she’s fine, but I have no doubt she will text him and lie about it if we get into another fight. It sets us up for disaster.

I also recognize that even if I could convince her to pull the plug on this, the resulting anger and resentment fallout would be likely deadly for our relationship. We definitely need to get back into couples therapy aggressively.

She also explained why she texted him—she had taken the pic in the morning after her workout and planned to send it all day, so once things blew up, she did it to escape from the fight. She recognizes how reckless that was of her now.

It was also hurtful because a primary attack she used against me last night was that I asked her for sex during the day while she was busy—the painful irony of knowing she was planning to ask F for sex all day while being angry with me for asking her for sex.

The one thing I did not account for on this journey was how complicated and difficult it is to transverse our emotions.

And lastly, before others ask, I still don’t believe either of them have romantic feelings for the other. I do believe my wife is addicted to the option of escape—she can get in a fight with me and msg him to escape. She loves that and does not want to lose that outlet.

So while she recognizes in light of day that our marriage and kids are more important, she can’t see that during one of her anger episodes and doesn’t know how to protect us when they hit.

So after all that, we had (great) sex again. No dirty talk, but she had three orgasms and we really connected. I’m left feeling a bit hollow and shaken now. I hope we can course correct quickly.

[scarfolamew]

Dr. S, thank you as always for your candor and courage in baring your soul to us in these pages.

Gosh I can relate to all this. I have a loyal, loving wife, but she has a rage within her that transforms her into a completely different person. She has done and said things in that state that are really, really difficult to come back from. Like, life-ruiningly bad decisions have been made.

Just saying this to offer some empathy. People can be judgmental about the turbulence within a marriage, but nobody gets to define what is acceptable or workable except you and your wife. I sincerely wish you and your wife happier days ahead; I think it's within both of your power to make it happen if you both make the choice that you want it.

[eventfire]

Dude....she had feelings for him when she cheated that were bridled by guilt. She neatly packed away those emotions, but did not get rid of them. THEN, you removed the burden of guilt and opened the flood gates. Why on earth you guys would have chosen the man that divided you in the first place to be her official first as a sanctioned hotwife, is beyond me. She should have found a guy organically after you gave the nod of approval. She's unpacking all the previously forbidden feelings for him and picking up where she left off. You guys are definitely not on the same level. They say a frog will literally boil to death in a pot of water if the heat is applied subtlety enough. Youre in a similar scenario. Step back a year and read your last update from that perspective. No way in hell you'd have pulled the trigger on this lifestyle then if you read what you wrote today. Is it possible she has a personality disorder?

[drstrangelove]

Dr. S, thank you as always for your candor and courage in baring your soul to us in these pages.

Gosh I can relate to all this. I have a loyal, loving wife, but she has a rage within her that transforms her into a completely different person. She has done and said things in that state that are really, really difficult to come back from. Like, life-ruiningly bad decisions have been made.

Just saying this to offer some empathy. People can be judgmental about the turbulence within a marriage, but nobody gets to define what is acceptable or workable except you and your wife. I sincerely wish you and your wife happier days ahead; I think it's within both of your power to make it happen if you both make the choice that you want it.

I appreciate the kind words and empathy.

[residueS]

Sorry to say, I feel that is incredible toxic. There is an underlying resentment toward you, she appears to constantly having. I think people reveal their true feeling or part of their true feeling when they are emotionally charged. So, what she said may as well be what her real thoughts. We’ve been train to wear mask during social interaction, so I think you probably need to think deeper about what is the real her. You guys probably need something more drastic to really work things out and find where the most foundational problem lays.

[drstrangelove]

Dude....she had feelings for him when she cheated that were bridled by guilt. She neatly packed away those emotions, but did not get rid of them. THEN, you removed the burden of guilt and opened the flood gates. Why on earth you guys would have chosen the man that divided you in the first place to be her official first as a sanctioned hotwife, is beyond me. She should have found a guy organically after you gave the nod of approval. She's unpacking all the previously forbidden feelings for him and picking up where she left off. You guys are definitely not on the same level. They say a frog will literally boil to death in a pot of water if the heat is applied subtlety enough. Youre in a similar scenario. Step back a year and read your last update from that perspective. No way in hell you'd have pulled the trigger on this lifestyle then if you read what you wrote today. Is it possible she has a personality disorder?

Again, I really can’t speak to what her feelings are for him. I genuinely don’t know. She’s convinced herself that it is just sex, but I recognize that’s convenient because it’s all he wants—it’s the cycle of her life to fall in love with a guy who wants to use her for sex and then hang around until she gets his full attention (it’s how her and I started).

But even if she does have feelings for him, it’s more complicated than that—it’s a far leap to run away with him. Again, does she want to divorce me and marry him? It’s certainly possible, but I don’t think that’s likely.

Now, as was pointed out by a previous poster, that could all change if F started having feelings for her. But it’s clear to me (and my wife) that he does not. And if I had to guess why, it’s because he knows how much drama she has caused and knows her history of drama with me—he (reasonably) doesn’t want that in his life. She’s hot and good in bed and he just wants to fuck her. So in many ways, he’s also an ideal person not to steal her lol.

As for choosing him; I didn’t. I was opposed, but she insisted it be him as I discussed in this thread and I caved because I wanted to experience being cucked. It was not a rationale decision.

I also don’t want to be a prisoner of this very bad moment. Even last night, during this nightmare, I had a mindblowing sexual experience with her because of this dynamic. It has a strong pull on me and even if I pulled the plug, I know I’d be wishing to be back where I am now. So before I cut the cord, I want to troubleshoot.

I will note though, that I do think we need some space before she sees F again, but I’ll take it day by day.

As for my wife’s mental state, I was convinced *something* was wrong with her post-affair as her behavior appeared insane. My best attempt at diagnosing her was that she exhibits the traits of a covert narcissist. I have no idea though—despite my user name, I’m not a doctor.

Her psychologist doesn’t think she has any mental illness.

Ultimately, she is who she is and I understand her, so labeling her doesn’t matter much to me. I know exactly what happened in her brain to get her from Tuesday night when F cancelled to Friday night when she attacked me. The issue though is me seeing it in realtime so I can intervene.

[drstrangelove]

Sorry to say, I feel that is incredible toxic. There is an underlying resentment toward you, she appears to constantly having. I think people reveal their true feeling or part of their true feeling when they are emotionally charged. So, what she said may as well be what her real thoughts. We’ve been train to wear mask during social interaction, so I think you probably need to think deeper about what is the real her. You guys probably need something more drastic to really work things out and find where the most foundational problem lays.

Her resentments led to the affair initially. And then she acts out like a jilted teenager. She’s done a deep dive on it and it’s all a long way of saying she has daddy issues (her father is a lovely man FWIW).

So yes, she feels I’m critical of her and I don’t hear her.

I am critical of everything, least of all her actually—but we are programmed so oppositely that even slight, masked criticisms from me crush her. I’m working on it.

As for listening to her, she made a passing comment in our couples therapy session two weeks ago that she doesn’t want to end up in a dynamic where she is the porn star for two men. We spent 30~ seconds on it. She cited that comment 10~ times last night as an example of me not listening to her.

Objectively, it seems insane—to go from a passing comment weeks ago to deep feelings of anger over being ignored about something I wasn’t even aware she felt. She skipped the entire middle part where we discuss the issue and problem solve it.

In her defense, on days when she is sexting with F, seeing him or about to see him, it’s a lot to handle between him and me. I can understand her feeling overwhelmed. But the irony is this blow up happened after three days of her not talking with him and us not having any sex—so the demand on her sexually was at an all time low.

I think what happens is she builds it up in her head as an issue—and she stews on it. It overwhelms her and she feels wronged. I needed her to come to me and talk with me about it so I could guard against it.

[elina]

Dear DrSL

Thanks for sharing all of this on the forum, as some of the other posters have already expressed, each marriage is different and only the two indiviudal inside it can make decisions on what is right or wrong. Also, I think this illustrates my argument in my earlier post on this thread today; There will always be a lot of history and context that has not been disclosed by the OP; Hence we should all be careful to pass on judegement.

From my perspective, I think you are doing the right thing here. Trying to understand your Wife, clearly loving Her, but not accepting everything she decides to throw at you. Life was never easy, being married was never meant to be....

I hope the two of you can work it out...

SIncerely
elina

[drstrangelove]

Apologies for all the words today, but thought I should give one more brief update.

Wife and I talked all day—this is familiar space for us—and much of that time has been her apologizing for her behavior and taking ownership of needing to change on her end to avoid something like this happening again.

She was especially devastated about weaponizing my love for my children against me. She said she completely lost herself and fought dirty to hurt me as much as possible. She felt unheard and disrespected and wanted me to suffer for it—she blamed me for her poor communication and vowed to focus on fixing that.

I have offered some thoughts back to her: ultimately we need to prevent her bottling resentments mixing with alcohol on the same night. I can do what I can, but ultimately it’s on her. I’m going to try to give her more space on sex—especially texts—and do more check-ins on how she is feeling. We took on a lot this month and have been flying too fast.

As for F, while she is enjoying it, she’s willing to stop anytime I want. She wants a life with me and her kids and won’t let fun sex jeopardize it again.

I’ve kept quiet on that as I don’t know how I feel. Right now, her going off to see him is the last thing I want, so maybe we end up calling it quits and accept it’s just not for us. Another part of me knows how strong this kink has a hold on me—for sure we need to slow things down though.

I’m curious how I’ll feel tomorrow when I wake up. I need a reset badly—working out now and then in for an evening of football.

Thanks again to everyone for the feedback.

[Coolcalm]

I’m sure some folks would be familiar with the terms “narcissist” and “borderline personality disorder” and you may be. But this seems classic for her. Throw in the alcohol and that is a recipe for disaster. She also seems to really want to leave you for him but she won’t because she knows HE’S not there YET. S o she comes back to earth and calms it down with you. She seems to have a certain resentment towards you for whatever reason and she is taking out her wrath. You do seem like a “battered spouse” and this does not seem like a good thing for your marriage. She is abusing you.
Yes I know we all come here for the titillating reads and it’s all fun until you see something is really wrong. I love the cuckold lifestyle and all it entails-when it is in the right context. Your situation was never (through what Ive read thus far) never seemed right for this.
Please know I’m not a “hater” and it does not please me to write this on here and I know this is really none of my concern but I’m only going on your years of writing about this and what you’ve shared with and as you’ve seemed to invite and sometimes (most times) appreciate feedback that is why I’m writing.
No hater though.
It’s great to say to someone “have a few drinks an enjoy…” it is something else entirely when you see that person is an alcoholic. Then maybe you say something.
I think you need to work on YOU. You give in too easily to her sexual manipulation and she knows she can do that. You have to hold firm and MEAN IT when you say you two need to step back.
All that being said I appreciate all you openness and candor. It is a good guide for folks.
Wishing all the best for you my man!

[funfortwo]

I'm sorry you are going through this; it must be unbelievably difficult to have these different emotions going on. When my wife and I entered this dynamic/lifestyle, it was difficult for me to understand that fantasy and reality can be entirely different. We both enjoyed it, but I had some difficulty with insecurity at the beginning. This led to us contacting her BF and putting everything on hold. It wasn't a long hold, but we had time to reset and focus on us. In talking to my wife, she admitted that I would calm down and want to continue in the LS, thus it was never ended. Her BF was very understanding and told us to work on us and would be there if we changed our mind... and if not, he was grateful for the experiences. We both agreed that this lifestyle should enhance our marriage, and not damage or destroy it. We have, and always had, an amazing relationship, but nonetheless we struggled at the beginning. It took us a year to get to the point that we were solid with everything and now things are really taking off. In your case, you entered this on rocky ground and worked through a lot of insecurity and lack of trust. The one commonality on this site, along with any hotwifing/cuckolding podcast, is that it's difficult if the marriage isn't solid at the onset. Lack of trust and dishonesty can take a very long time to re-establish without the former affair involving the current bull. Maybe a "timeout" would be good thus providing time to work on yourselves? I wish you the best for you and your family....stay strong!!

[drstrangelove]

I’m sure some folks would be familiar with the terms “narcissist” and “borderline personality disorder” and you may be. But this seems classic for her. Throw in the alcohol and that is a recipe for disaster. She also seems to really want to leave you for him but she won’t because she knows HE’S not there YET. S o she comes back to earth and calms it down with you. She seems to have a certain resentment towards you for whatever reason and she is taking out her wrath. You do seem like a “battered spouse” and this does not seem like a good thing for your marriage. She is abusing you.
Yes I know we all come here for the titillating reads and it’s all fun until you see something is really wrong. I love the cuckold lifestyle and all it entails-when it is in the right context. Your situation was never (through what Ive read thus far) never seemed right for this.
Please know I’m not a “hater” and it does not please me to write this on here and I know this is really none of my concern but I’m only going on your years of writing about this and what you’ve shared with and as you’ve seemed to invite and sometimes (most times) appreciate feedback that is why I’m writing.
No hater though.
It’s great to say to someone “have a few drinks an enjoy…” it is something else entirely when you see that person is an alcoholic. Then maybe you say something.
I think you need to work on YOU. You give in too easily to her sexual manipulation and she knows she can do that. You have to hold firm and MEAN IT when you say you two need to step back.
All that being said I appreciate all you openness and candor. It is a good guide for folks.
Wishing all the best for you my man!

I do appreciate the feedback—I shouldn’t have used the word “hater” before.

I do feel like I’m missing the mark in my posts if you—or anyone—still feels she wants to leave me for him. It’s just not the case. She wants to fuck him—it’s fun. And she wants to use him as an escape to text with when she’s stressed by her real life.

I recognize my last post paints her as insane, but ultimately it was one really bad night next to hundreds of days as an incredible wife and mother.

As for her resentment, that’s for sure. It was a primary obstacle in our recovery from the affair. It’s complicated stuff, and I don’t want to take this thread too far off course, but it mostly revolved around feeling unappreciated and feeling I was overly critical. We worked through those as best we could—I’m still working on it to make sure she feels loved and respected.

Last night she felt like I’ve been treating her like a porn star the last few weeks—and it’s a fair criticism. We spent a lot of time talking about sex and having sexual encounters—to her that not only felt like an unfillable cup with my sex drive, but it also felt disrespectful to her as my wife. I need to pull back sexually for sure to give her some space; it’s just I’ve been overly excited by the new dynamic.

Her feeling that way does not justify her behavior in anyway. I’d go as far as to call her evil last night. It’s the worst I’ve ever seen her. And it absolutely was abusive. However, it comes off 7+ months of an absolutely great dynamic between us. If this behavior resumed, like it was during post-affair, I’d agree I’m an abused spouse. It right now is like to chalk it up to one really bad night.

As for alcohol, she struggles with it at times for sure. We drink frequently—we love making cocktails and drinking a bottle of wine. So perhaps four times a week she’s having at least two drinks without incident, but it acts as a catalyst if she’s not right emotionally. She needs to guard against that better.

As for sexual manipulation, it’s a tough call. We had sex twice this morning and it’s arguable that the first session was her using sex to patch things up. On the other hand, it’s also possible she wanted to reconnect with me physically and calm the waters. I’m not in her head.

She’s rarely the aggressor for sex though, so on the whole, I don’t feel manipulated. I also don’t think her giving me physical comfort after such horrible behavior is bad behavior by her—I think it helped me calm down and rest afterward.

Lastly, as for stepping back, as I noted in my last post, I’m not making any decisions today, but that is where I’m leaning. We’ll see if he reaches out and how we feel, but she has no plans to reach out to him again right now. I’m still a bit rattled by last night and need to fully reset before I’m ok participating in this again.

[residueS]

Sorry to say, I feel that is incredible toxic. There is an underlying resentment toward you, she appears to constantly having. I think people reveal their true feeling or part of their true feeling when they are emotionally charged. So, what she said may as well be what her real thoughts. We’ve been train to wear mask during social interaction, so I think you probably need to think deeper about what is the real her. You guys probably need something more drastic to really work things out and find where the most foundational problem lays.

Her resentments led to the affair initially. And then she acts out like a jilted teenager. She’s done a deep dive on it and it’s all a long way of saying she has daddy issues (her father is a lovely man FWIW).

So yes, she feels I’m critical of her and I don’t hear her.

I am critical of everything, least of all her actually—but we are programmed so oppositely that even slight, masked criticisms from me crush her. I’m working on it.

As for listening to her, she made a passing comment in our couples therapy session two weeks ago that she doesn’t want to end up in a dynamic where she is the porn star for two men. We spent 30~ seconds on it. She cited that comment 10~ times last night as an example of me not listening to her.

Objectively, it seems insane—to go from a passing comment weeks ago to deep feelings of anger over being ignored about something I wasn’t even aware she felt. She skipped the entire middle part where we discuss the issue and problem solve it.

In her defense, on days when she is sexting with F, seeing him or about to see him, it’s a lot to handle between him and me. I can understand her feeling overwhelmed. But the irony is this blow up happened after three days of her not talking with him and us not having any sex—so the demand on her sexually was at an all time low.

I think what happens is she builds it up in her head as an issue—and she stews on it. It overwhelms her and she feels wronged. I needed her to come to me and talk with me about it so I could guard against it.

Actually I can quite related to you regarding the comment about being critical and not listening. It probably a quite common dynamic between spouses. A passing comment for you can be a big critic for her. And she will build resentment till one day blow up on something seems trivial to you. But one thing I do realize is that during argument a lot of reason for the resentment do surface, probably more so than talk calmly as the filter is off. Resentment can from almost anything but often have a central theme, I think it never hurts to analysis and identify the truth source. If I have to make a guess some of resentment probably from you pushing the cuckold angle, that is also related to the porn start comment. But I just read your thread, I could be totally off.

[Mlv4]

She wants to be a slut for him and a wife for you. Simplification to a complex dynamic for sure, but true. Fucked and ravaged by him, loved and protected by you. I’m sure you already realize this.

[mundyman]

Apologies for all the words today, but thought I should give one more brief update.

Wife and I talked all day—this is familiar space for us—and much of that time has been her apologizing for her behavior and taking ownership of needing to change on her end to avoid something like this happening again.

She was especially devastated about weaponizing my love for my children against me. She said she completely lost herself and fought dirty to hurt me as much as possible. She felt unheard and disrespected and wanted me to suffer for it—she blamed me for her poor communication and vowed to focus on fixing that.

I have offered some thoughts back to her: ultimately we need to prevent her bottling resentments mixing with alcohol on the same night. I can do what I can, but ultimately it’s on her. I’m going to try to give her more space on sex—especially texts—and do more check-ins on how she is feeling. We took on a lot this month and have been flying too fast.

As for F, while she is enjoying it, she’s willing to stop anytime I want. She wants a life with me and her kids and won’t let fun sex jeopardize it again.

I’ve kept quiet on that as I don’t know how I feel. Right now, her going off to see him is the last thing I want, so maybe we end up calling it quits and accept it’s just not for us. Another part of me knows how strong this kink has a hold on me—for sure we need to slow things down though.

I’m curious how I’ll feel tomorrow when I wake up. I need a reset badly—working out now and then in for an evening of football.

Thanks again to everyone for the feedback.

It definitely sounds like your wife owns 80% of this at least.
I think there is a lot of internal conflict on who she wants to be in this triad, she’s having a hard time coming to a satisfactory answer or doesn’t like the answer, so of course she takes this frustration out on you. You’re an easy target b/c while she had the affair, you are the one who started her to cucking you.
I also think she strongly resents your input in the her relationship with F. So she is fighting you for control and is doing whatever she can to establish dominance over you. Welcome to your new female lead relationship.
Alcohol is always the best lubricant when it comes to loosening a person’s tongue and inhibitions.
Good luck trying to gain some bit of control of this bucking bronco of a relationship you have.

[drstrangelove]

Apologies for all the words today, but thought I should give one more brief update.

Wife and I talked all day—this is familiar space for us—and much of that time has been her apologizing for her behavior and taking ownership of needing to change on her end to avoid something like this happening again.

She was especially devastated about weaponizing my love for my children against me. She said she completely lost herself and fought dirty to hurt me as much as possible. She felt unheard and disrespected and wanted me to suffer for it—she blamed me for her poor communication and vowed to focus on fixing that.

I have offered some thoughts back to her: ultimately we need to prevent her bottling resentments mixing with alcohol on the same night. I can do what I can, but ultimately it’s on her. I’m going to try to give her more space on sex—especially texts—and do more check-ins on how she is feeling. We took on a lot this month and have been flying too fast.

As for F, while she is enjoying it, she’s willing to stop anytime I want. She wants a life with me and her kids and won’t let fun sex jeopardize it again.

I’ve kept quiet on that as I don’t know how I feel. Right now, her going off to see him is the last thing I want, so maybe we end up calling it quits and accept it’s just not for us. Another part of me knows how strong this kink has a hold on me—for sure we need to slow things down though.

I’m curious how I’ll feel tomorrow when I wake up. I need a reset badly—working out now and then in for an evening of football.

Thanks again to everyone for the feedback.

It definitely sounds like your wife owns 80% of this at least.
I think there is a lot of internal conflict on who she wants to be in this triad, she’s having a hard time coming to a satisfactory answer or doesn’t like the answer, so of course she takes this frustration out on you. You’re an easy target b/c while she had the affair, you are the one who started her to cucking you.
I also think she strongly resents your input in the her relationship with F. So she is fighting you for control and is doing whatever she can to establish dominance over you. Welcome to your new female lead relationship.
Alcohol is always the best lubricant when it comes to loosening a person’s tongue and inhibitions.
Good luck trying to gain some bit of control of this bucking bronco of a relationship you have.

I like when she takes some control in most areas. All I need for her is to lead with love; last night it was pure cruelty. Truthfully, she’s been doing an awesome job taking control and making things light and fun. Even today she made a couple of teasing comments; I wasn’t in the mood for them, but I appreciate the effort.

Ultimately, I stuck with her after the affair when most people wouldn’t have—how she treated me was unconscionable. I’ve now given her freedom to keep fucking her AP. And that’s just the big stuff—I’m a fairly awesome husband on the small things too. She *should* feel so appreciative of me—and she often expresses that—but last night it fell apart and did a lot of damage.

Her effort has really bridged the gap today. She’s been perfect and I couldn’t have asked for a more remorseful approach from her. We’re healing.

Edit: I also wanted to add that I discussed again with her our decision to use F as the guy. In her mind, the emotional connection she had with him from the affair was entirely severed—she used to talk with him about PTA and other things; now it’s purely sex and she feels very clear that’s all it is. And she doesn’t want that to change.

Her view on using a different guy doesn’t interest her—she feels like it would be exhausting to find a guy and then worries about eventually meeting with him and having bad sex—then feeling bad about herself for going through with it. With F, it’s the best sex of her life and she feels like it’s a no-brainer for her to use him in this dynamic, which only calls for sex.

I’m not sure what I believe—her rationale makes sense, but a part of me now thinks she’ll be open to other partners after F. She’s enjoying the ability to go have fun sex outside our marriage more than I expected and I don’t think she’ll give it up forever. Of course, the issue will be her organically meeting another guy.

I really just want to be patient and keep communication open with her. I’m looking for all the same red flags most of you guys are.

[Coolcalm]

I hope everything is okay?