I think she just shut me down - for good :(

[Jtaa2018]

Long time lurker, first time poster. I'll try to keep it short. Mid 40s couple, married 14 years. I have always had a huge fantasy of group sex. Not necessarily hot wifing or swinging or any other "bucket", just group sex. 3, 4, more? The thought of any of it drives me nuts. Anyway - I have carefully brought up things like threesomes, swinging etc to her in the past and she shuts it down immediately. About a year or two back, I came across a picture online of a woman who looks IDENTICAL to my wife and she is laying on her back with a dick by her face and one by her pussy, with two loads of cum on her tits and pussy. Seriously - looks JUST like her besides one small tattoo. Anyway, this picture gets me hard as a rock. So I have very slowly been trying to push her towards some MMF action. A month ago, we were on vacation and got pretty buzzed one night. While I was fucking her, I whispered in her ear "tell me about the first time you were ever fucked." Long story short - it did not go well. She was completely turned off that I even brought it up, and refused to say anything at all. Totally killed the mood. A couple days ago, I decided to try again. We were having sex, and she has a dildo that is the exact same size as my cock. I grabbed it while I was fucking her, and started rubbing it on her clit. She was digging it, so I started fucking her DVP style with my cock and this dildo. We have done this in the past, and she always seems to like it. She was getting into it, and I was asking her if it felt good etc. I said "maybe we could try this for real sometime". And like last time, it was like I flipped a switch and she was immediately turned off. Few hours go by, and we talked about it. She made it VERY clear that she has ZERO interest in fucking anybody else, male or female, and that she would absolutely KILL me and any other person that did anything sexual. She was upset, embarrassed and grossed out at even the thought of either one of us touching anybody else, even if we did it together. I explained my fetish to the best of my ability - that I love her immensely, but would love to try more things sexually with her. She did not budge one bit - it is off the table and she says it will NEVER EVER happen. She admitted that there are men and women that she finds extremely hot, but she has zero desire to fuck any of them and feels disgusted that I do. So - to those of you who have been shut down hard like this - Have any of you made progress nudging her in this direction after such a hard, stern NO?

[irishmusicman]

Man, I'm sorry. It would be great if she would at least indulge it as a fantasy even if she doesn't want to go through with acting it out. I'm so lucky that my wife is very open-minded. I don't take it for granted at all.

[2inUPMichigan]

Welcome to OHW Jtaa2018

You already know the answer, you just don't want to give up hope of living out your fantasy. She has told you in no uncertain terms her answer and you will have to accept it.
Your role was to explain your fantasy to the best of your ability and ask her if she would be willing to participate. Her role is to determine if this is something that she is willing to do or can do. You can't make that decision for her. Pushing, nudging or manipulating to get your way could all end up with her having horrible regrets and may damage your marriage.

Is she more important, or is your fantasy?

Remember, what you are asking her is so much more than just having sex with someone else. It is about how she views herself as a woman. If she can’t picture herself as a non-monogamous hotwife instead of a monogamous married woman then it just isn't going to happen.

If a woman has stated emphatically NO and backed that up with a detailed reason I would take her word for it that she knows her own mind. Attempting to convince her that you know better, it just sounds like you are dismissing her opinions.

2inUP
VHW (verified hotwife) Admin

[Lucky Dog]

I mostly agree with 2inUP, because if you love your wife, you really need to put her above your desires. Many here have done that, too.

There's also the chance that her response was an overreaction. Sometimes people do that when something the find excting conflicts with their beliefs or upbringing, or their self-concept. So there is a small chance she will think about it and begin to realize it's exciting. If you push her or try to get her onboard, of course, she will just feel worse and it could hurt both her and the relationship. But it's also possible that you could mention cuckolding in the third-party, just one in a while mention it while talking about other sexy things. Maybe even show her some romantic porn and then show one where the woman is cucking her husband.

If she changes her feelings, she will be more comfortable letting you know. But if she doesn't, the fact that you're not telling her to do it or that you want it will make it easy for her to feel comfortable telling you this without being hurt. It's not easy to do, but it's probably the most you can do. And never forget how much you love her and that this is always the most important thing.

[Pressingher]

Yes, I have had success after a "hard no"

It's a difficult thing to be vulnerable about this fantasy. I see a lot of wannabes suffering this pitfall. My point is your actions here are understandable. I want to give some advice and hope it doesn't sound like condemnation. Your situation is similar to many people so please know that.

A word of caution. Suppose you try to communicate anything to anyone, not exclusively your wife, and it blows up in your face. In that case, it's usually not a good idea to make another attempt in an almost identical fashion to the previous attempt. Reading your post, it feels like your first attempt didn't give you any reason to believe that she may receive your proposition more favorably if you just try it again but double down with a toy. I'm sure there's more to the story than you can put into a single post but just some food for thought going forward.

Next, you may be trying to run before you walk. I'm reading a lot of talk about whether she would be willing to act out some sort of group play, but there are a lot of steps between being with one person all your life and adding in another person or persons. For me it raises questions, is she adventurous in or out of bed? If not, my suggestion would be to encourage her towards more adventure and see if she enjoys that.

What turns her on? Figure out how her wants and desires relate to your own. When you randomly bring it up in bed (or what likely feels random to her) and it kills what is likely an otherwise positive sexual experience, a pattern is formed where it becomes easy for her to associate your fetish with being turned off.

Last bit of advice, take a break from bringing it up in the bed. Talk with it about her in a neutral state when you are 1 on 1. Just talk about it, don't try to 4d chess her into an agreement. Explain why it turns you on and maybe even see if you can come to some sort of compromise in the least. She may feel that she would never get into actually cucking you, but perhaps she can roleplay it for you from time to time. Try some baby steps pretty much.

[philxxo]

This is all great advice here. Follow what the previous posters are saying. I don't think it is done forever. I will say that my wife specifically told me she does NOT like hearing or thinking about other people when we are having sex. It destroys the intimacy that we have together by her being forced to think about another person while we are in the act. I still talk about being cucked at other times, but I avoid doing roleplay with that during sex. Don't talk about it while you are having sex and being intimate. I think part of it with my wife, is that she is actually somewhat sexually excited by it and does not want to be. Guilt and shame coming in. That's just my theory. Take the slow route. For some women its more important to be a great and dedicated wife than to be sexually free. If that's her choice, then accept it. I tell my wife it's an option for her and leave it at that. I don't push. She asked me "what if it never happens"? I say, then it never happens and I will be fine with it. Maybe one day she will.

[Tryn]

It took my wife about 10 years to go from where your wife is now to being ok role playing it some in bed. She understands now that I’m ok with it just being fantasy. It’s not that it turns her on now, it just doesn’t turn her off. Her spidey senses have started off as you want her to actually do it. The more she believes that, the longer the argument continues. Perhaps start off with talking about fantasy play in general, see if there’s any she wants to explore. Once she’s more comfortable with fantasy play then you can try to incorporate your fantasy… as fantasy.

[Logan]

You just need to leave it alone and rebuild your connection with her. The seed has been planted now - give her space and let it roll around in her brain. Pushing more will only make things worse.

[whosbeensleeping]

You just need to leave it alone and rebuild your connection with her. The seed has been planted now - give her space and let it roll around in her brain. Pushing more will only make things worse.

Agreed!

[irishmusicman]

You just need to leave it alone and rebuild your connection with her. The seed has been planted now - give her space and let it roll around in her brain. Pushing more will only make things worse.

And if this seed ever does grow, it will be far down the road, most likely.

[Jtaa2018]

Thank you all for the replies. The frustrating part for me is that she sends such mixed signals about it, which I didn't really get into in my first post. She makes comments all the time whenever the word "swing" or "threeway/fourway" come up in a non sexual manner (things like 3-way stop, swinging on the playground...stuff like that). But a couple of you mentioned that my mistake may be bringing it up while we are having sex - and I think you hit the nail on the head. Also, somebody mentioned that she probably feels a little guilty that there is a part of her that really is turned on by it and she doesn't like that. I think all of that may be correct.

Regardless - she now knows where I stand on it 100%. The conversation we had last week was the most frank, honest one we have ever had on the topic. My initial thought (when I posted) was that I totally blew it, and it would never happen even as fantasy play. But then the past few days she has been going out of her way to dress sexier when we go out, more touching/PDA etc so maybe there is hope after all. I'm going to sit back and see if anything plays out, but I won't bring it up again - at least not for a LOONNNGGG time and definitely not in bed! Thanks again y'all, I'll let you know if anything ever progresses.

[philxxo]

That sounds like a good strategy. My wife gives me a hard "no" then as you say, sends mixed signals. After I told her my fantasy, we were going out on a date. She said we could even go to a local bar that is a known swinger meet if I wanted. For a while she joked around about having a boyfriend. Or she would randomly say that if we went into business, she could fuck the other businessmen so we could get all the contracts. Stuff like that. I have told her some of my fantasies and dreams. She admitted she is turned on by some of those. Lately she has said she would stop joking about it though, and she has. So I believe that she is turned on by it, but right now it's more important to her to be a devoted and dedicated wife. Plant the seed, then when an appropriate opportunity arises talk about it. Otherwise just wait for her to bring it up. She likely will.

[Pufferfish]

People's fantasies don't often mix well, and that's just the way it is. So it's possible that you may just have to accept it as something that will never happen.

Personally however, I believe that stereotypes and generalities exist for a reason. Women act like women, men act like men. You can make a fair assessment about why people do what they do, most of the time.

A woman getting turned on by multiple penises during play, while at the same time denying that it's something she wants, ever thinks about it, etc. is stereotypical behavior. Talking about how she doesn't even think about anyone other than you, or fantasize about anything other than you, is stereotypical. And it's nearly always bullshit. But convincing them to admit it, is something exceptionally difficult. And her major fear about it, like most, is that this is some ploy that you want to have sex with other people yourself. Hence, why she added the part about killing you if you did anything sexual with someone else. And so to avoid any possibility of that, she shuts it down.

Bottom line is, she doesn't want for you to sleep with anyone else, doesn't understand why you would feel differently and actually want her to, and will die before she'll admit that she'd like to. Getting past that wall is going to take a hell of a lot of patience, trust, and understanding that is going to take years of honest conversation. And maybe that wall will never come down, and she'll never trust you enough to openly admit it. Or, maybe she does honestly feel that way. You'll have to decide how essential it is to your life and how essential she is to your life without it.

[Jtaa2018]

Some minor updates here, from where I was last summer until now...

For a couple months, I didn't bring up anything sexual outside our normal day-to-day stuff. It started to change back in early November. We were on a trip without the kids, and had already had sex 4 or 5 times that day. We went for round six and I had her bent over the couch and was REALLY going to town on her. After we were done, both exhausted and satisfied, she commented how that was the hardest that I had ever fucked her.

Fast forward a couple weeks, and I brought up something about "a couple weeks ago when I fucked you harder than you've ever been fucked". She replied with "I said it was the hardest you've ever fucked me, not the hardest I've ever been fucked." IMMEDIATE hotpast boner! I asked for more info, and she redacted right away saying she "didn't mean it like that". But that comment opened some doors a little bit. Over the next couple weeks, I started asking a bit more about her past. We never really had a big "past partners" talk before, and I had never given it much thought. But suddenly, I was totally turned on by it. I explained to her why it turned me on, found some reddit forums, showed her some articles about why a lot of men are turned on by hotpast and slowly let her know that I will never shame her or think of her differently because of things she did before we ever met. Her past is pretty mild, but she is still a little uneasy about getting into great detail. But it is a very obvious turn-on for her as well! I'll ask her a question or two, and she'll be like "we aren't discussing this tonight" but then will answer my question anyhow. Very slowly it is bringing her out of her shell.

Last weekend, I reassured her again that she can be comfortable bringing anything up sexually and that aside from a few things (poop, vomit etc) that I would entertain a discussion about absolutely anything she wanted to try. I am not sure if she was serious or just trying to get a reaction, but she said "what if I said I regret never having a black guy and wanted to do it now?" I told her I would definitely have a conversation about it and see if it would be "right" for us. But then she immediately said she was kidding and didn't really want to, just wanted to see what I would say.

Two days ago, I told her that I wanted to get her some new sexy panties. She has a couple nice pairs right now that I've bought her in the past... "Fuck Me", "All You Can Eat", "Cum Inside Me Daddy" are a few of the ones that she already has. I went to a website and handed her my phone and told her to pick out a couple new pairs if she saw anything she liked. The two she picked out were "FUCK TOY" and "SLUT WIFE". Now, that being said, I am not even sure she understands the definition of a hotwife or slutwife, but god am I ready to see her sexy little ass prancing around in a tiny little SLUT WIFE thong!

So, that is it. Pretty mild and who knows if it will go any further, but for now the hotpast discussions are enough! We also did one more thing that was a bit difficult, but super hot in hindsight. I told her I wanted to get some pictures of my creampie leaking from her, so after I came inside her she held her legs up and I grabbed my phone and got some pictures of it leaking out. I then thought "now or never" and made myself dive in and clean it up. I licked and licked her for about ten minutes until it was gone. I have always wanted to do this, but it is VERY hard once you get that Post Nut Clarity. But we can check that one off of our list now, and honestly I want to do it again!

I'll drop another update on here if I ever make more progress. Thanks for listening/reading!

[armyguyot1]

I bought mine some panties that say, "I Suck I Swallow What more do you need to know." They do a lot to put her in a sexy slutty mood when she wears them.

[Pufferfish]

I'll reiterate what I said before and simply say that all this is definitely something that she thinks and fantasizes about too. But she's too scared about screwing things up with you to admit it. She seems to be a little more willing to open up about it. Just keep up being supportive and interested about her "slutwife" adventures and she'll slowly continue to open up about it. The more little steps she's able to trust you with, the more she'll be honest about.

[aztd]

Some minor updates here, from where I was last summer until now...

For a couple months, I didn't bring up anything sexual outside our normal day-to-day stuff. It started to change back in early November. We were on a trip without the kids, and had already had sex 4 or 5 times that day. We went for round six and I had her bent over the couch and was REALLY going to town on her. After we were done, both exhausted and satisfied, she commented how that was the hardest that I had ever fucked her.

Fast forward a couple weeks, and I brought up something about "a couple weeks ago when I fucked you harder than you've ever been fucked". She replied with "I said it was the hardest you've ever fucked me, not the hardest I've ever been fucked." IMMEDIATE hotpast boner! I asked for more info, and she redacted right away saying she "didn't mean it like that". But that comment opened some doors a little bit. Over the next couple weeks, I started asking a bit more about her past. We never really had a big "past partners" talk before, and I had never given it much thought. But suddenly, I was totally turned on by it. I explained to her why it turned me on, found some reddit forums, showed her some articles about why a lot of men are turned on by hotpast and slowly let her know that I will never shame her or think of her differently because of things she did before we ever met. Her past is pretty mild, but she is still a little uneasy about getting into great detail. But it is a very obvious turn-on for her as well! I'll ask her a question or two, and she'll be like "we aren't discussing this tonight" but then will answer my question anyhow. Very slowly it is bringing her out of her shell.

Last weekend, I reassured her again that she can be comfortable bringing anything up sexually and that aside from a few things (poop, vomit etc) that I would entertain a discussion about absolutely anything she wanted to try. I am not sure if she was serious or just trying to get a reaction, but she said "what if I said I regret never having a black guy and wanted to do it now?" I told her I would definitely have a conversation about it and see if it would be "right" for us. But then she immediately said she was kidding and didn't really want to, just wanted to see what I would say.

Two days ago, I told her that I wanted to get her some new sexy panties. She has a couple nice pairs right now that I've bought her in the past... "Fuck Me", "All You Can Eat", "Cum Inside Me Daddy" are a few of the ones that she already has. I went to a website and handed her my phone and told her to pick out a couple new pairs if she saw anything she liked. The two she picked out were "FUCK TOY" and "SLUT WIFE". Now, that being said, I am not even sure she understands the definition of a hotwife or slutwife, but god am I ready to see her sexy little ass prancing around in a tiny little SLUT WIFE thong!

So, that is it. Pretty mild and who knows if it will go any further, but for now the hotpast discussions are enough! We also did one more thing that was a bit difficult, but super hot in hindsight. I told her I wanted to get some pictures of my creampie leaking from her, so after I came inside her she held her legs up and I grabbed my phone and got some pictures of it leaking out. I then thought "now or never" and made myself dive in and clean it up. I licked and licked her for about ten minutes until it was gone. I have always wanted to do this, but it is VERY hard once you get that Post Nut Clarity. But we can check that one off of our list now, and honestly I want to do it again!

I'll drop another update on here if I ever make more progress. Thanks for listening/reading!

If she said black guy, she has been thinking about it.

[BBCfan]

Interesting to read your situation.

If I'm out of line please disregard and delete, These were just my thoughts.

Do you want it to be about you or about her?

You're pushing what you want as far as cream pies and dirty panties etc, and when she brings up little comments to play along, you seem to push too much about it and it shuts her down.
I'm saying this from experience as I've done that many times as well.

I needed to shut up and listen and make it more about her than me, it's what I found worked better.

When I was reading the things she said to you, I was hoping you wouldn't say anything in return except something like "that's really hot" and just fuck her a bit harder or something. Just be satisfied with that little nugget till next time.

You guys obviously have amazing sexual chemistry so that will likely unfold more quickly for you than most.

Seems probable black guys are something she has some sort of fantasy about or did, So perhaps introducing a black sheath you could play that out ...but not needing her to say anything dirty or comment or need it to be too real. Just let her try a different sized fake dick than yours, see if she enjoys it.

My wife was someone who at 1 time said a very definite "never ever", and is now maybe. For me it works best if I try not to say anything too much when she shares, and just let her share when she feels like it and let her start things mostly.

I also try to encourage her to bring up her fantasies and leave mine aside.I realize I want to be about her, and that excites me if she's excited.

I wish you all the best and hope it works out as you both desire.

[Jtaa2018]

Not out of line at all, and I appreciate the feedback. Not quite sure how to answer about whether I am doing this for her or for me. Honestly, for both. As I eluded to, she is very shy and embarrassed about sex stuff. After 17 years together, she still won't tell me to go harder or softer or speed up or slow down etc ... It's embarrassing to her in the moment. But after 17 years, I also know that she is MUCH more sexual "inside" if that makes sense. So without me pushing a bit, she will stay bottom-line vanilla forever and be cool with it. But I know for a fact that the "dirty girl" is in there and may or may not come out fully with some help. So, when I press for more and she goes along by with it, I feel the need to pry it wide open right away for fear it may not come back. And you might just be correct in stating that I need to appreciate the little nuggets as I get them and not push too hard. I'll try to remain patient!!

Side note - her Slut Wife panties got delivered today and she is sexy (and horny) as fuck with them on all day! Should be a great night!

[zorro]

Yes. I had success with a former GF who went on to become a wife. A few years into our relationship, I became aware she was talking with admiration about one of her professors in the college she was attending. She began meeting him for breakfast before class.

One night she volunteered out of the blue how before we met he had had a guy in AZ drive her into the desert at night to "check out nature." She didn't have sex with him but seriously entertained it. I told her that if it would be good for her personal development, I was good with her having sex with her professor and even staying with him for three months to thoroughly enjoy him. She immediately responded, "That will never happen!"

Be that as it may, within 6 weeks she was fucking him at his place a few times every week. Curiously, for a long time she always preferred to come home to me, so she was often getting it from both of us same nights. Eventually she did sleepovers for special occasions (Christmas, birthdays) but never went for the 3-month gig. She did move in with him for a week, only to come back when she saw he drank too much and exhibited violence when intoxicated. And thus ended her NRE adventure, as sometimes we hear about.

So much for "Never."

Her going HW (or HGF) was due, I think, to her having a real individual she felt sexual desire for. Abstract discussions about having sex with others can easily run into stop thoughts for women, such as not being a good partner/woman/wife, thoughts that playing would open the door for the male having sex with other women, and at times religious dogma than can throw cold water on sensuality. So, I think you have done very well with your wife: You have had the bravery to state your erotic desires and values about her going native. She is not receptive now. She is, however, a woman, a female sexual animal born with the capacity to have sex with as many men as she wants. So, you have planted the seed and laid forth your position to her. She now knows. Should you meet the right man, the gathering wetness in her pussy may lead her to wonder if you are for real.

So, don't push (that's annoying and a turn off -- technically being manipulative to press someone to do what they don't want to do. At the same time, stay loving and don't give up hope. Your offer to share her is ultimately a loving act, one you may have to wait for time and personal encounters to deliver.

[BBCfan]

Side note - her Slut Wife panties got delivered today and she is sexy (and horny) as fuck with them on all day! Should be a great night!

Very hot!!!
Enjoy your night.